Needham Line Questions

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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby 3rdrail » Wed May 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Well...like it or not, this is a country in which the personal freedom afforded by automobile is coveted, and rightfully so. I don't see it as giving up anyone's rights to a decent public transportation network in a medium to large city. Needham, Roslindale, Brookline folks also have cars and would have a legitimate argument against the removal of their public transport. If it weren't for our cars, it would be difficult getting to the Boston Trolley Meet this weekend or the Boston Day at Seashore next month- just ask a recent poster on the Boston Day thread.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby rhodiecub2 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:24 pm

Was there a big push in the last ten years for the Green line to Needham? I remember there may have been a website for the Needham line but I couldn't find anything. Would there be a stop in the Newton Upper Falls area for the green line to Needham?
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby BandA » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:31 pm

Someone proposed green line to needham, others proposed orange-lining the needham line, perhaps bringing the orange line up to meet the green line somewhere. I don't know how much of the Charles River Railroad has been ripped out for the bike path. Presumably there would be a stop at Upper Falls station which still exists and last saw passenger service about 1931 IIRC.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby rhodiecub2 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:18 am

I don't know how much of the Charles River Railroad has been ripped out for the bike path.


Looks the railroad was ripped out throughout the entire length of Newton. The bike path starts behind National Lumber off of Needham St and goes southward to the Charles River.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3129809,-71.2163162,16z
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby csor2010 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:31 pm

As of ~2 years ago an Upper Falls Green Line branch was on Newton's planning radar (start on slide 49), with some acknowledgement of being able to incorporate the path into the light rail ROW. I also recall hearing that the trail was constructed with the explicit understanding that it could be reclaimed for transit use (though Maryland's similar arrangement for the Capital Crescent Trail ROW still ended up causing a dispute). In terms of trail extent, to my knowledge the entire portion within Newton is a trail, with a deck extending partway across the Charles River bridge. The bridge over 128 was removed as part of the add-a-lane project, but abutments were built to provision for a future reinstallation.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby rethcir » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:59 pm

It would be such a long ride from Needham to Park on the GL. I suppose an hour on the Green with low headways is a better commute than the CR with the schedule gaps.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby Trinnau » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:56 pm

What's the commute from Needham Heights to Park today? Probably around 50 minutes or so. The CR schedule is 39 minutes to South Station plus about a 10-minute walk. I think a transfer to Orange at Ruggles and walk from DTX would be about the same. So wouldn't a trip on a hypothetical Green be about comparable?
Last edited by CRail on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby CRail » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:50 pm

Riverside is a greater distance than Needham Center.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby neman2 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:10 pm

csor2010 wrote: The bridge over 128 was removed as part of the add-a-lane project, but abutments were built to provision for a future reinstallation.


No it was not, the abutments are gone and we're not replaced.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby The EGE » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:14 pm

The current Riverside station is 2.6 miles from Cook Street Junction. It's 2.3 miles to Needham Heights, 3.1 to Needham Center, and 3.9 to Needham Junction. So travel times to Park Street would be about 42 minutes to NH, 46 to NC, and 50 to NJ. Possibly reduce those by several minutes around 2025, as purging the Type 8s likely allows for the resumption of 50mph on the D Branch. Current schedules on the Needham Line from South Station are 40 minutes to NH, 36 to NC, and 32 to NJ. So you're looking at about 10 minutes additional travel time on the Green Line, highly dependent on your destination and any transfers.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby CRail » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:04 pm

Whoops, I meant to say Needham Heights. I believe the grand master plan as it is dreamt ends the Green line at Needham Heights with a joint Green/Orange line station and the rest of the Needham line be a continuance of the Orange from Forest Hills.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby BandA » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:55 pm

While it may not be as good as the "Needham Loop" of 100+ years ago, having lines come together creates some network effects.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby Arborwayfan » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:44 am

What would running a Green Line branch into Needham do to headways on the D? Would it make the trains twice as frequent inbound from the junction to the current D line, or half as frequent outbound from the junction? Would cars run through, or would there be a permanent cross-platform transfer operation at the junction to the current D line. Central Subway capacity would matter. Would capacity on the Highland Branch itself be a problem?

I assume part of the idea would be to generate new ridership, some of it even within Needham: at Green Line headways and prices Needham Jct to Needham Hts would make a lot more sense than on CR. And Needham Ctr to Reservoir etc. would become much more possible than they are now (unless there's a frequent bus I don't know about. I would hope (but not hold my breath) that Needham Green Line would come with some provision to make it easy and free to transfer from an inbound D car to an outbound D-Needham car, and vice versa. I would kind of hope, and definitely not expect, some provision to make it easy and free to transfer from inbound D to inbound C at Reservoir-Cleveland Circle. I actually think they should have cars change ends at the extra Reservoir platform instead of at the current Cleveland Circle station, so that passengers to/from the stops on the C that are not close to the D (Coolidge Corner etc) could easily make that trip. But maybe that would be so operationally difficult that it's not worth it, or maybe it will usually be faster to change at Kenmore and go back out. Obviously passholders get all those transfers free anyway.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby Red Wing » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:52 pm

I would assume extra service on the D inbound from the junction. I assume something is going to have to turn around at Kenmore do to congestion further up the line. Who knows who gets the short straw Needham, Riverside or, Cleveland Circle. My vote would be Cleveland Circle since it has to deal with traffic lights.
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Re: Needham Line Questions

Postby Arborwayfan » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:44 pm

Wouldn't it make sense to do passenger trip studies to figure out which line could turn at Kenmore and inconvenience the fewest passengers. Actually, wait, which line is it that feeds into the loop at Kenmore? That would be the one to turn. :)
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