Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby sb150 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:32 pm

Anyone trying to find the Red Line from the southbound Orange Line at DTX is pretty well screwed 😱
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby Yellowspoon » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:54 am

sb150 wrote:Anyone trying to find the Red Line from the southbound Orange Line at DTX is pretty well screwed 😱
And if one is handicapped, it's even worse. One could
  • Take the elevator to the surface, cross Washington Street, and re-enter the system by paying another fare. Of course, there are no signs for this.
  • Or take the Park/DTX passageway to the elevator at Park Street. This assumes one already knows this is possible. Passengers going from the Red Line to the southbound Orange Line would need advance knowledge of this so that they alighted at Park Street. Then, they would have to know which elevator to take at Park Street because [drum roll, please], there are no signs pointing to the correct elevator.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby Yellowspoon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:28 pm

Back in the summer of 2014, I was walking to Faneuil Hall when I noticed this hole in the ground with "temporary" barriers protecting it. For reference, this is 175 feet south of City Hall and about 250 feet south of the former Adams Square MTA station. The only signs were the words, "TRANSIT POLICE" on the temporary barriers. These barriers were not designed to be protective barriers and their only reinforcement were sand bags.
000STA147.jpg

I have no idea how long this "temporary" structure had been in this condition before I first noticed it. It wasn't fixed in 2014. Nor was it fixed in 2015. Not until December of 2016 did I first notice that the temporary barriers had finally been replaced with a permanent, strong structure.
000STA178.jpg

So where do these stairs lead? There are no signs so the MBTA must not want you to know.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby The EGE » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:38 am

That's actually an entrance to State station - it leads to the far north end of the northbound platform. It was originally built as an Adams Square entrance for the station (see this article). After the construction of Government Center and the obliteration of Adams Square, it's not well used. I really don't understand why there is no signage there, nor why a permanent railing took so long to be added.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby diburning » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:56 am

Is it actually an entrance with fare gates? Or is it one of those exits guarded by a one-way revolving cage-door? If it's the latter, then the lack of signage would make a bit of sense.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby dieciduej » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:39 am

diburning wrote:Is it actually an entrance with fare gates? Or is it one of those exits guarded by a one-way revolving cage-door? If it's the latter, then the lack of signage would make a bit of sense.


It does have Charile gates and not iron maidens. I would use it when I was going to the Newbury Comics that was over there, now Staples. As a sad note, a woman was killed there, in February 2009, when her scarf was caught in the escalator. Also at exit is closed on weekends.

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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby deathtopumpkins » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:17 am

The EGE wrote:That's actually an entrance to State station - it leads to the far north end of the northbound platform. It was originally built as an Adams Square entrance for the station (see this article). After the construction of Government Center and the obliteration of Adams Square, it's not well used. I really don't understand why there is no signage there, nor why a permanent railing took so long to be added.


The temporary railings that were up for a few years were just that - temporary. It used to have a permanent railing.

As for why it doesn't have any signage - I'd suspect it has to do with the relationship between the T and the owner of that building. The building owner owns the land the entrance is on, and probably required there not be any signage as a condition of allowing the entrance to remain open (largely for the benefit of people who work there).
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby Patrick Boylan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:56 pm

I know you're only guessing, but even so how do you think not having a sign benefits the people who work there?
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby diburning » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:36 pm

It probably functions as a semi-private entrance for their employees.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby BandA » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:55 am

Geez, just attach the signage to the railing.... Is that the 28 State St building? Citizens Bank building FKA Bank of New England hq?
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby Patrick Boylan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:23 am

deathtopumpkins wrote:As for why it doesn't have any signage - I'd suspect it has to do with the relationship between the T and the owner of that building. The building owner owns the land the entrance is on, and probably required there not be any signage as a condition of allowing the entrance to remain open (largely for the benefit of people who work there).


Patrick Boylan wrote:I know you're only guessing, but even so how do you think not having a sign benefits the people who work there?

diburning wrote:It probably functions as a semi-private entrance for their employees.

Are you trying to answer my question to deathtopumpkins? Even if it functions as a semi-private entrance for their employees, how does not having any signs benefit the people who work there? Do you think that if there were a sign it would attract such large crowds that their employees couldn't use it? If the employer really wanted it to be their semi-private entrance, and if it's on the employer's property, why wouldn't they just extend their glass wall around it so the only way to get to it would be from inside the building? As it is now their employees must brave the elements for the few steps from the stairway to the building's door.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby ExCon90 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:14 pm

Maybe it works like a private club--if you don't know what it is you don't belong there. :wink:
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby Arborwayfan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:14 am

I think deathtopumpkins meant that the owner may allow the entrance to be open/exist for the benefit of the people who work there, not that the absence of a sign benefits those workers. The absence of the sign may benefit the owner and his architect in some mysterious way. Also, I think (?) that pre-charlie this may have been exit only. Can't remember for sure. But then, I think I also remember that it had signs back then.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby deathtopumpkins » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:54 am

Correct, I theorized that the owner doesn't want the general public to realize that is a station entrance, because it is on their property. Their employees will know it's there, as will anyone else who gets curious and finds it.

It could be a liability issue. It could be that the legal agreement allowing the entrance to exist doesn't let the T make any modifications to it (e.g. adding signage). This is all just speculation, but I'm inclined to believe that there's a reason the current situation exists.

As for why the building owner wouldn't extend their lobby wall to enclose the station entrance, I can think of many reasons - it may be legally required to remain technically a public entrance. Or the lobby layout may not accommodate it without significant changes (e.g. moving a security checkpoint). Or maybe they don't want random people who have no business there being in their lobby.
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Re: Sign, sign, everywhere a sign ...

Postby sery2831 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:31 pm

Yellowspoon wrote:nstalled.

Part B: These are secret stairs. Anyone walking to the south (to the right in this photograph) on the center platform will not see these stairs unless they are explicitly looking for them. There are no signs facing the oncoming pedestrians that these are the only stairs to westbound green line. I've stood here about an hour before a RedSox game and about 40% of the patrons in baseball attire walk right past this sign and wind up at track 4.



The steps that are not signed to go up are the ones signed upstairs to go down. The intention cause the stairs are so narrow is for up and down stairs. The ones that are signed come up into the Green Line after the stairs that go down creating a natural pedestrian flow. I am sure at one time they had signs saying down or do not enter. It is really well thought out. If you put a sign up it will disrupt the flow.
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