PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby BandA » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:23 am

What is weird about this agreement is it seems like the T is giving away the store just to get to Wachusett. But there is no penalty clause. Oops. That's what the T lawyer means by the agreement isn't binding. So I assume the penalty would be that the T can't carry passengers to Wachusett. Note that the agreement is signed by Beverly Scott and Mr Fink Jr, both highly esteemed in these forums for their intelligence and foresight.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:51 pm

At present,PAR/PAS barely have +/- 87 "active" locos,not counting the reported influx of ex-CSX GE units.
it will be a "Real Pain" for MBTA if "forced" to transfer installed I-ETMS/ACSES gear from newly "Deadlined" units to
to other "active"units.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby johnpbarlow » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:20 am

Bump to this thread with yesterday's MBTA release re: PTC implementation update:

http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/news_events/?id=6442457706&month=&year=

Excerpt:
The PTC Implementation Plan includes acquiring a spectrum through PTC 220 LCC or a frequency swap with the FCC; the installation of ~180 PTC antennas, ~250 PTC wayside installations, and ~4,500 PTC transponders; new optical fiber installations (~230 miles of new pole routes and ~50 miles of restored/existing pole routes); and PTC installation in 100 MBTA locomotives, twenty-five Pan Am locomotives, and 114 cab cars.


Guess MBTA position continues to be it isn't planning on updating the entire PAR locomotive fleet - just 25 engines and not 92 as PAS/NS claim the original 2014 agreement stipulated. I wonder if PAS/NS are now somehow in agreement?

Also attached are the currently planned weekend shutdown time periods for each affected MBTA commuter rail line.
Attachments
MBTA PTC shutdown plans.JPG
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby Rockingham Racer » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:46 am

Interesting. I wonder, though, why commuter rail in Boston has to grind to a halt for PTC installation when in other cities that has not been the case. Can someone please explain?
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:57 am

Rockingham Racer wrote:Interesting. I wonder, though, why commuter rail in Boston has to grind to a halt for PTC installation when in other cities that has not been the case. Can someone please explain?


Cab signals. They have to install cabs on Needham, Franklin, and inner-Worcester in order to do the southside PTC overlay. That's going to mean shutdowns on those lines. And since northside has no cabs they have to do the more complex ACSES non-cab installs to get PTC implemented (as well as the ACSES + I-ETMS freight overlay on the freight main).

Other than Fairmount, which is a curious outlier, that's the difference explaining which lines are subject to shutdowns vs. which aren't. As for why Fairmount. . . Are they finally whacking the stupid 5-car minimum on Fairmount by finally fixing the signal spacing??? We badly need that glitch fixed before it's possible to run shorter Indigo trainsets--P-P or xMU--at acceptable cost.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby deathtopumpkins » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:03 am

I find it very curious that they plan on shutting down the Lowell and Haverhill lines at the same time - but the Wildcat another time. Seems awfully inconvenient to passengers, and operationally inefficient, since with the Lowell and Haverhill lines shut down, nothing's going to be using the Wildcat anyway.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby Diverging Route » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:25 pm

deathtopumpkins wrote:I find it very curious that they plan on shutting down the Lowell and Haverhill lines at the same time - but the Wildcat another time. Seems awfully inconvenient to passengers, and operationally inefficient, since with the Lowell and Haverhill lines shut down, nothing's going to be using the Wildcat anyway.


Revenue CR trains don't use the Wildcat during the weekend, so should be a non-issue. Amtrak's Downeaster does, however -- but that's another issue.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby CRail » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:41 pm

No reason the DE can't go western route the whole way. Westbound service can meet a bus at Haverhill to take people to Anderson and reverse that for the Eastbound. Sure there might be scheduling conflicts that create delays but It's better than cancelling trips altogether.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby deathtopumpkins » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:46 pm

Diverging Route wrote:
deathtopumpkins wrote:I find it very curious that they plan on shutting down the Lowell and Haverhill lines at the same time - but the Wildcat another time. Seems awfully inconvenient to passengers, and operationally inefficient, since with the Lowell and Haverhill lines shut down, nothing's going to be using the Wildcat anyway.


Revenue CR trains don't use the Wildcat during the weekend, so should be a non-issue. Amtrak's Downeaster does, however -- but that's another issue.


I'm aware. But my statement that this sounds "operationally inefficient" still rings true with respect to Amtrak and any potential non-revenue MBTA moves. Just seems weird to not shut down the Wildcat when the only lines it connects to are shut down, but then shut it down on other weekends.

This means that Downeaster passengers will get an extra consecutive 2+ weeks of busing that shouldn't be necessary, and if I were NNEPRA I'd probably be giving someone at the T a call right now asking why.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby BostonUrbEx » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:04 pm

CRail wrote:No reason the DE can't go western route the whole way.


And they probably will. As you and others probably already know, all Downeaster crews are qualified on the Western Route as an auxiliary route and for extra moves. The new interlocking and control point at Ash St and Woburn St in Reading will both be beneficial to handling existing and additional trains on the Western Route. The latest target date for these (if that even means anything anymore) is late April. Downeaster crews will be operating via the Western Route on a regular basis throughout the Green Line Extension project, and I'm sure whatever they have planned for that will also be executed for the PTC installation.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby RenegadeMonster » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:08 pm

johnpbarlow wrote:Bump to this thread with yesterday's MBTA release re: PTC implementation update:

http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/news_events/?id=6442457706&month=&year=

Excerpt:
The PTC Implementation Plan includes acquiring a spectrum through PTC 220 LCC or a frequency swap with the FCC; the installation of ~180 PTC antennas, ~250 PTC wayside installations, and ~4,500 PTC transponders; new optical fiber installations (~230 miles of new pole routes and ~50 miles of restored/existing pole routes); and PTC installation in 100 MBTA locomotives, twenty-five Pan Am locomotives, and 114 cab cars.


Guess MBTA position continues to be it isn't planning on updating the entire PAR locomotive fleet - just 25 engines and not 92 as PAS/NS claim the original 2014 agreement stipulated. I wonder if PAS/NS are now somehow in agreement?

Also attached are the currently planned weekend shutdown time periods for each affected MBTA commuter rail line.


Can anyone clarify the time table for the Newburyport / Rockport line?

The part that's not clear in the chart above is when they are doing the combined portion of the line between Beverly and North Station. Will this be during the Newburyport phase in 2017 or the Rockport phase in 2018. Also, I assume this means weekend shut downs both lines into Boston whenever they work on this portion of track at the same time.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:35 am

http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About ... 3%2017.pdf

The 4/3 FCMB meeting is when the next presentation is scheduled for the PTC weekend shutdown plan, and is to include more detail on the communications plan to riders for the shutdowns. Hopefully that'll demystify some of the sketchy initial info about when/where these shutdowns will occur.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:09 am

http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About ... -27-17.pdf

Monday's FCMB meeting gave an updated preliminary chart of which calendar year 2017 weekends each line will be shut for PTC installs. See p. 6. Lowell, Newburyport/Rockport, Haverhill, Needham, and Fairmount are up in 2017. Franklin, Fitchburg, and Worcester don't happen until 2018.

Note that 4 of the weekends Rockburyport's closed coincide with the already-planned closures for Beverly Draw swing deck replacement, so absent PTC shutting the whole works those 4 weekends would've had service only as far as Salem to begin with.
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby deathtopumpkins » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:48 am

This schedule makes quite a bit more sense than the last one (e.g. doing the Wildcat at the same time as the Lowell line, instead of later). I'm surprised they pushed off half the shutdowns until 2018 though. Cutting it a bit close, aren't we?
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Re: PAS and PAR: MBTA Service At Risk Over PTC Concerns

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:19 am

These don't include the freight main west of Willows or north of LJ. PAR is still the real fly in ointment for the deadline.
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