Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby juni0r75 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:24 am

Ron Newman wrote:But even if the station building was no longer available, why didn't the T put the new stop in the same place as the old? The Kendal Green station in Weston is now a private residence, for example, but the train still stops there.


Part of the logic around modern CR construction is the assumption that the riders will use their cars to drive in from more distant suburbs (or exurbs in the case of some areas) and use th train to get into the city, thereby maximizing the transport corridors into the city by reducing the number of cars on the freeway. The old idea of CR being suburban passenger service meant that the towns often grew up around the transport hub (station) and promoted foot traffic. People would walk or take the bus (streetcar) to the station and leave their cars at home (if they even had them). With our town centres mostly built-out, it is difficult to justify leveling a large area for the cars that people will use to get to the stations. Even if stations are available for purchase or reuse (eminent domain could be used by the Commonwealth if the MBTA thought that reclaiming stations would be in the best interests of the line's restoration), the T often would rather build a purpose-built station with adequate parking and road connections to better maximize the line's use. For example, the only town centre station on the restored Middleville/Lakeboro line (that I can remember) is in Brockton, which had the space to support moderate parking (I think about 200 spaces?). At the same time, East Bridgewater station was available to reopen as a stop (it housed a Burger King last time I was out there) and the T instead decided to build a station nearer to East Bridgewater State with better parking availability and access for the students which would make an excellent weekend market for service into Boston. It is unfortunate that CR service cannot meet both needs and allow for service to both out-of-town stations for parking and town centre stations for foot traffic and local business.
User avatar
juni0r75
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK and East Providence, RI

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby A320 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:28 am

juni0r75 wrote:
Ron Newman wrote:But even if the station building was no longer available, why didn't the T put the new stop in the same place as the old? The Kendal Green station in Weston is now a private residence, for example, but the train still stops there.


Part of the logic around modern CR construction is the assumption that the riders will use their cars to drive in from more distant suburbs (or exurbs in the case of some areas) and use th train to get into the city, thereby maximizing the transport corridors into the city by reducing the number of cars on the freeway. The old idea of CR being suburban passenger service meant that the towns often grew up around the transport hub (station) and promoted foot traffic. People would walk or take the bus (streetcar) to the station and leave their cars at home (if they even had them). With our town centres mostly built-out, it is difficult to justify leveling a large area for the cars that people will use to get to the stations.



When most original station sites were chosen in cities and towns, very few if any people even owned an automobile; so, no thought was given to providing a place to park them. Passengers were usually dropped at the station by horse and carriage, or, as the poster above suggested, the stations were centralized so as to be accessible by foot.

The same was true of the second generation of major league baseball parks, like Fenway. They were sited to allow people to either walk or take a streetcar to the game, as again, few people had cars. That's why there is such limited (and outrageously expensive) parking around Fenway Park today. When the third generation of ballparks were built in the late 60's and early 70's, they were moved outside of the inner city, and surrounded by acres of parking lots.

When my dad commuted on the old B&A from Framingham in the early 60's, he had to find a parking space at the curb along Waverly St. (The trains boarded at the old station platform at that time. I still remember seeing the green REA trucks there.) If we had to pick him up at the station -- in those days, most families had only one automobile -- we would have to park to wait for the train in a little lot across from the old Framingham News building, off of Howard St., near that old hotel that is remarkably still standing.

Obviously, to accommodate today's mobile society, modern commuter rail stations must provide parking for customers, which makes it almost impossible to use the old stations, or station sites. A good example of this old and new contrast in station siting is Newburyport. The old station was tucked neatly close to downtown, surrounded by residences. The new station was located a mile or so south, outside of downtown, and is surrounded by three large parking lots, which see plenty of business.
User avatar
A320
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Rye, NH

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby 130MM » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:15 am

juni0r75 wrote:
Ron Newman wrote:But even if the station building was no longer available, why didn't the T put the new stop in the same place as the old? The Kendal Green station in Weston is now a private residence, for example, but the train still stops there.


Part of the logic around modern CR construction is the assumption that the riders will use their cars to drive in from more distant suburbs (or exurbs in the case of some areas) and use th train to get into the city, thereby maximizing the transport corridors into the city by reducing the number of cars on the freeway. The old idea of CR being suburban passenger service meant that the towns often grew up around the transport hub (station) and promoted foot traffic. People would walk or take the bus (streetcar) to the station and leave their cars at home (if they even had them). With our town centres mostly built-out, it is difficult to justify leveling a large area for the cars that people will use to get to the stations. Even if stations are available for purchase or reuse (eminent domain could be used by the Commonwealth if the MBTA thought that reclaiming stations would be in the best interests of the line's restoration), the T often would rather build a purpose-built station with adequate parking and road connections to better maximize the line's use. For example, the only town centre station on the restored Middleville/Lakeboro line (that I can remember) is in Brockton, which had the space to support moderate parking (I think about 200 spaces?). At the same time, East Bridgewater station was available to reopen as a stop (it housed a Burger King last time I was out there) and the T instead decided to build a station nearer to East Bridgewater State with better parking availability and access for the students which would make an excellent weekend market for service into Boston. It is unfortunate that CR service cannot meet both needs and allow for service to both out-of-town stations for parking and town centre stations for foot traffic and local business.


During the Greenbush project, the towns had a lot to say about where the stations were to be built. Cohasset and Scituate didn't want downtown stations. I believe their fear was that people "from away" would drive into their towns and clog their streets. Ironically, there has been some noise about putting these stations back downtown as the businesses are looking at lost revenues as the customers get in their cars and drive home. Thereby not spending any money at there stores.

Another issue is that downtown stations are often near grade crossings. When a train makes a station stop, the gates at these crossings are down for the duration of the stop. For some reason this drives people insane. This is the reason that Weymouth Landing was built in a trough so as to not block the crossings at that location.

DAW
130MM
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:57 pm
Location: Wakefield, MA

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby boatsmate » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:42 pm

There used to be a stop In Dover. but that was many yrs ago. The last Time I was there you could still see remnints of the old platform.....

ALso on the Framingham line yu have Framingham Station, which is now moved west a little ( the rest. is where the orginal station used to be) and Lets not forget Worcester station, the old Amtrak building still stands even though the station is now Down the street.
boatsmate
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:57 pm
Location: Boylston, Ma

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby ST214 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:19 am

It's not really down the street...it's right on the other side of I-290. takes about a minute walk.

BTW, the MBCR B&B Dept. uses the old Amshack there.

boatsmate wrote: and Lets not forget Worcester station, the old Amtrak building still stands even though the station is now Down the street.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
User avatar
ST214
 
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Cleveland Heights, OH

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby RedLantern » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:56 pm

ST214 wrote:It's not really down the street...it's right on the other side of I-290. takes about a minute walk.

BTW, the MBCR B&B Dept. uses the old Amshack there.

boatsmate wrote: and Lets not forget Worcester station, the old Amtrak building still stands even though the station is now Down the street.


They even share the same platform, sure only the new high level platform is used, but the yellow rubber platform edge runs the entire length of both station areas and in between. I suppose the only real abandoned part is the paved second platform in front of the amshack, but AFAIK that was only used for Amtrak, and not the T.
Trains aren't dangerous, it's lack of common sense that's dangerous.
User avatar
RedLantern
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Westford, MA

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby ST214 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:52 am

Yes, the abandoned platorm on the main....CSX ripped out the crossing in front of the Amshack a few months ago when doing trackwork on the siding. Last time i saw them use this platform was a few years ago when the siding switch at CP45 was being worked on.

RedLantern wrote:
ST214 wrote:It's not really down the street...it's right on the other side of I-290. takes about a minute walk.

BTW, the MBCR B&B Dept. uses the old Amshack there.

boatsmate wrote: and Lets not forget Worcester station, the old Amtrak building still stands even though the station is now Down the street.


They even share the same platform, sure only the new high level platform is used, but the yellow rubber platform edge runs the entire length of both station areas and in between. I suppose the only real abandoned part is the paved second platform in front of the amshack, but AFAIK that was only used for Amtrak, and not the T.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
User avatar
ST214
 
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Cleveland Heights, OH

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby JUDGE DRED » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:03 pm

Maybe a little off topic... has the mbta ever considered making foxboro a permanent stop? the station is already there, and there are million parking spots there(work out a lease with Krafty Bob?). I guess you would have to rebuild the line to walpole(or mansfield) for faster speeds, which should be the only big expense.

Do dreams come true? nah
JUDGE DRED
 

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby Arborwayfan » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:42 am

Some commuter rail lines today are built with transit oriented development in mind. I remember hearing that along some of the relatively new CR lines outside San Francisco, the average lot size, number of garages, etc., on new construction had gone down, I think without anyone exactly planning it that way. Has anyone hear of apartment buildings or townhouses being built next to new CR lots (kind of ugly places to live)? Does anyone think there's actually a chance that downtown stations could be added on the Old Colony in the future if people started asking to be able to walk? Obviously you couldn't double the number of stops without wrecking the schedule, but one or two town centers could get service. People walk to the Needham Line. People walk to the Hyde Park stations. Do people also walk to the in-town stations on the other old lines that still have them? I always assumed they built the Old Colony stations and park and rides partly because after thirty years without trains there was no dense neighborhood of people wanting to walk to the station in those towns the way there is around some CR stations that have always had service.
Arborwayfan
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:27 am
Location: Terre Haute, Indiana

Re: Other abandoned MBTA stations.

Postby rhodiecub2 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:53 pm

Ron Newman wrote:
B&Mguy wrote:Rosemont/495
Methuen
Route 213


These stations appeared on some MBTA maps, but my understanding is that they never got service. And the New Hampshire stations had no service "when the MBTA took over". That came later, and only lasted a year or so.


Was Route 213 supposed to be in Salem, NH or in Methuen?
User avatar
rhodiecub2
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:27 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby Rockingham Racer » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:33 am

Methuen, near Rt. 213.
User avatar
Rockingham Racer
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:25 pm

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby NRGeep » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:16 am

Tufts University Station 1976-1979. College Ave Station till 1950.
NRGeep
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:33 pm

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby The EGE » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:50 am

Tufts actually opened on September 15, 1977. Jonathan Belcher's history had the date wrong - an extremely rare error - because it appeared in public timetables but service did not actually start. I dragged through a bunch of old Tufts newspapers last year and found the correct date, and he's since corrected it.
User avatar
The EGE
 
Posts: 2460
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:16 pm
Location: Waiting for the N Judah

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby Aerie » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:01 pm

I was one of the handful of people who used the Tufts station on a regular basis. It was a flag stop for most trains. I remember on Monday of the week after the Blizzard of '78...when we were finally allowed to travel...there were about 25 people waiting at the Tufts station. Those of us who were regulars knew that an express from Lowell was due at 8:15, followed by a local from Woburn about 5 minutes later. When the Lowell express blasted by at speed, most of the people at the station cursed the railroad and left for the bus stop up the hill. Those of us "in the know" waited and probably got to Boston an hour before the unlucky bus-catchers. After the express had passed, the regulars expressed some guilt at not telling the others to wait 5 minutes. But when the Woburn train arrived, it was standing room only and it's unlikely the crowd could have been accommodated.
Aerie
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:25 pm

Re: Abandoned Commuter Rail Stations

Postby B&Mguy » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:10 pm

Is the set of concrete stairs off of the bridge at College Ave the old access point to the Tufts stop? I've tried to locate any traces of this station, but haven't been too successful. The MBTA must have eliminated traces of it pretty quickly after service ended in 1979.
B&Mguy
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Somewhere on the B&M

PreviousNext

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests