Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby CRail » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:37 am

The rule is the last trains can run late, but never early. They advertise an impossible connection time because there are always people pushing their luck and they make it because of the delayed last trips. They could make the last trip times a little more realistic (last 77, for example, is scheduled to leave Harvard at 1AM, and I've never seen service released downtown before 1AM, let alone get to Harvard by then), but still it's safer to set a time you know won't be beat. People complain about the inconvenience of having to wait for all the connections to be made, and as someone who's been on these connecting services a number of times, it's a pain, but it's much less a pain than having to walk home after paying for a ride that you already missed (been there done that)!

jamesinclair wrote:So we're supposed to buy your anecdotal observations over the actual location data?

Seriously?

Just because youre not comfortable with the technology does not mean it is not accurate.

You've never liked the fact that I speak as though I know what I'm talking about, which I do because I actually know what I'm talking about. It's very frustrating to see people insist something is fact that you know first hand is not! You're right, though, my disdain towards new and unproven technology which is a great tool but not remotely accurate to the letter of the law being used as such does not by itself indicate that it isn't accurate, but the simple fact that it isn't accurate does, however.

Seriously, no, don't 'buy' my observations, go make your own. Go talk to and spend some time with the people who actually provide the service, as I've done, and witness first hand how the operation works. The people who do it are far more knowledgeable about the service they provide than the people who have written code to monitor it.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby dm1120 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:04 am

I still don't understand how shutting the system down for 3-4 hours a night is cheaper than just running bare bones service once an hour between 1-4 am.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby deathtopumpkins » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:57 am

It's not that shutting down service is cheaper - it's that they need that time to do maintenance, primarily.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby danib62 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:09 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
So we're supposed to buy your anecdotal observations over the actual location data?

Seriously?

Just because youre not comfortable with the technology does not mean it is not accurate.


CRail wrote:You've never liked the fact that I speak as though I know what I'm talking about, which I do because I actually know what I'm talking about. It's very frustrating to see people insist something is fact that you know first hand is not! You're right, though, my disdain towards new and unproven technology which is a great tool but not remotely accurate to the letter of the law being used as such does not by itself indicate that it isn't accurate, but the simple fact that it isn't accurate does, however.

Seriously, no, don't 'buy' my observations, go make your own. Go talk to and spend some time with the people who actually provide the service, as I've done, and witness first hand how the operation works. The people who do it are far more knowledgeable about the service they provide than the people who have written code to monitor it.


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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby jboutiet » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:02 pm

Is every train that is part of the shutdown sequence trackable by the tracking software? If someone were to graph out the activity based on the data, would it be accurate? Would it be a complete picture - and if not, what's missing?
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby The EGE » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:18 pm

The MBTA will no longer guarantee a connection from the last E trip starting January 1st (thus hopefully speeding up the last-train connections by about 15-20 minutes). That trip averages one passenger per day.

http://mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About_the ... pdf#page=4
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby danib62 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:54 pm

Sanity wins!
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby CRail » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:05 am

Trying to appease people who don't understand how the system works is the opposite of sanity. So now the 12:32 and the 12:47 trips will end up waiting for the Red Line, and the two trips that follow the Connector will still come back empty as they always did. I bet the current procedure gets restored in the spring schedule, or before then as the 12:32 will likely be released early when the 12:47 gets stuck behind it.

jboutiet wrote:Is every train that is part of the shutdown sequence trackable by the tracking software? If someone were to graph out the activity based on the data, would it be accurate? Would it be a complete picture - and if not, what's missing?

The software can only tell you the location of a train. It cannot tell you its status (if the train is in service or not). It was reported that the system has to wait for the last train that leaves Lechmere, but that isn't true as there are two trains that depart after the "connector" that return to Lechmere out of service. The people who insist the Google knows all can't know from their observations that those last two trains are empty and not picking up passengers. Now, the last in service train will carry people inbound theoretically after all of the connections are made and will get stranded in the city which defeats the purpose of the connections in the first place. Don't forget, too, that the last E train also has to connect with the last 39 as a holdover from the Arborway line, just as the last train out of Kenmore waits for the 57 (A Line). Another reason the old connector will likely just get stuck behind the new connector and effectively change exactly nothing.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby BostonUrbEx » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:27 pm

CRail wrote:Now, the last in service train will carry people inbound theoretically after all of the connections are made and will get stranded in the city which defeats the purpose of the connections in the first place.


A train which is said to average 1 rider. And as long as the public knows what time the last connecting inbound runs, then it wouldn't matter anyway.

The folks who found the last E delaying the whole shut down process didn't suggest this method of shut down. In fact, I don't think they made any suggestion and merely pointed out the absurdity of it. The MBTA also claimed there was no issue with their shut down policy and yet they changed it anyway. They could have continued to put their fingers in their ears and said, "La la la la la, everything is perfect and totally not flawed," but instead they're trying to make a correction. That doesn't bode well for the "everything is fine" mantra the MBTA was pushing.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby danib62 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:48 pm

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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby danib62 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:21 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:A train which is said to average 1 rider.


#ridersfirst? more like #riderfirst...
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby Disney Guy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:35 pm

(Example) The last guaranteed connection E train has waited for Orange Line passengers at North Station and moves on to pick up the last connecting Blue Line and then Red Line passengers. Then it heads outbound to Heath St. It has to come back in to be stored at Lechmere or Reservoir.

If this train picks up passengers then it will look like the last inbound trip of the night where the third last or second last inbound trip was the last guaranteed connection trip. There may well be a few passengers on Huntington Ave. who don't need to make connections and/or who would welcome the ride into town.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby jamesinclair » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:39 pm

Hey look, the data was right.

Funny how that works out.
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby CRail » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:10 am

What data was right? The "data" that says the last train out of Lechmere is waited for by the entire system? Prove it.

BostonUrbEx wrote:A train which is said to average 1 rider.
Said by whom, a reporter who's never ridden it? Or does the infallible tracker data give pax counts now too?

DisneyGuy wrote: The last guaranteed connection E train has waited for Orange Line passengers at North Station and moves on to pick up the last connecting Blue Line and then Red Line passengers. Then it heads outbound to Heath St. It has to come back in to be stored at Lechmere or Reservoir.
Westbound Huntington Avenue connection is guaranteed by the 39 bus, not a streetcar. The last westbound E train does not wait at Park Street, or anywhere else for that matter. It continues on schedule to Heath Street and returns to Lechmere empty.

Notices have been posted saying the last train from Heath Street will now leave at 12:32. So the later trip that used to return in service will not. Notice the last train out of Lechmere remains unchanged at 12:30. I guess that last train will now make the trip in 2 minutes instead of 17! That'll be fun to watch on the tracker map!!!
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Re: Is the last E of the day costing $3.8m?

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:20 am

CRail wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:A train which is said to average 1 rider.
Said by whom, a reporter who's never ridden it?


http://mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About_the ... pdf#page=4



Let's look at the worst case scenario made by this change here:

- Nothing is improved, nothing is made worse. Everything shuts down almost the same for 99.9% of everyone (operators, riders, staff, etc) involved.
- The change is reverted for the next new set of schedules.

This is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things.
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