MOM Rail Service

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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby GSC » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:14 pm

If only common sense could prevail.

They've spent million$ on studies. But all you have to do is sit in the area of the Parkway and Route 37 in Toms River during rush hour to see that it is needed.

My plan is simple. Get off Ciba-Geigy's back for a few years in exchange for a park-and-ride in Toms River, activate the Barnegat Branch back to Lakehurst, and then north via the Southern Division to either Farmingdale, and then west to Jamesburg, or continue north to Red Bank.

Two or three trains in the morning, and two or three returning in the evening.

If the "heavy concentration" of trains on the NJCL is a problem, maybe someone should look closely at the signaling system. A train every half hour doesn't sound like "heavy concentration" to me. CNJ and PRR trains used to run just minutes apart, with plenty of room for each other.

The whole affair is frustrating at best. If Jamesburg people can teach their kids not to walk out in front of truck traffic on Route 522, they can teach their kids to stay off the ROW. They can take whole neighborhoods away from people with imminent domain, so why can't a few trains be put into operation without public input?

Supply and demand. We need it. Stop fooling around with endless expensive studies. Do it.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby FlashingAspect » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:46 pm

10 years later and stIll only talking about it. Let's face it this will never come to be with the budget cuts imposed on NJT year after year.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby JohnFromJersey » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:18 pm

FlashingAspect wrote:10 years later and stIll only talking about it. Let's face it this will never come to be with the budget cuts imposed on NJT year after year.


This is why I'm hoping a private entity will step up to the plate.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby JohnFromJersey » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:23 pm

GSC wrote:If only common sense could prevail.

They've spent million$ on studies. But all you have to do is sit in the area of the Parkway and Route 37 in Toms River during rush hour to see that it is needed.

My plan is simple. Get off Ciba-Geigy's back for a few years in exchange for a park-and-ride in Toms River, activate the Barnegat Branch back to Lakehurst, and then north via the Southern Division to either Farmingdale, and then west to Jamesburg, or continue north to Red Bank.

Two or three trains in the morning, and two or three returning in the evening.

If the "heavy concentration" of trains on the NJCL is a problem, maybe someone should look closely at the signaling system. A train every half hour doesn't sound like "heavy concentration" to me. CNJ and PRR trains used to run just minutes apart, with plenty of room for each other.

The whole affair is frustrating at best. If Jamesburg people can teach their kids not to walk out in front of truck traffic on Route 522, they can teach their kids to stay off the ROW. They can take whole neighborhoods away from people with imminent domain, so why can't a few trains be put into operation without public input?

Supply and demand. We need it. Stop fooling around with endless expensive studies. Do it.


NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby Ken W2KB » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:42 pm

JohnFromJersey wrote:NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?


Except that shopping malls are going on life support as greater numbers of folks prefer to shop and purchase online.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby JohnFromJersey » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:33 pm

Ken W2KB wrote:
JohnFromJersey wrote:NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?


Except that shopping malls are going on life support as greater numbers of folks prefer to shop and purchase online.


Shopping centers of some sort. As of now, the internet has not been able to cook and serve food for people (believe me, someone will find a way), so restaurants could still go in. You could always put offices in of some sort, maybe an amusement park, museums, theaters, etc., and places like Lakewood seem to always need/welcome more residential units.

Malls still have the benefit of going out and meeting people, and are usually safer/much more reliable when it comes to purchasing things.

Either way, real estate would have to be a part of the deal if a private enterprise was going to go through with the MOM line.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby ryanov » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:00 pm

Enough with the private entity stuff. Transportation doesn't work that way. There's ample history there.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby GSC » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:41 pm

Some years back, a high-speed electric line was proposed to run from Point Pleasant, through Lakewood, and on to Trenton. A lot of that right-of-way still exists today (Point Pleasant to Lakewood). Maybe that could be a possibility to become the MOM line, running more or less along the I-195 corridor. It could hook in somewhere to the NEC near Trenton. Also, much of the old trolley line that ran between the Pennsy Main / NEC and the Camden & Amboy is still there as a power line ROW.
The simplest bet is to use existing, still mostly intact, rail lines. The land is there, bridges built over and under the ROWs. Just do it.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby CJPat » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:25 pm

The high speed line ROW between Pt Pleasant and Trenton was initially developed (only between Pt Pleasant and Lakewood) back around 1910-1917. I think they laid enough stick rail to do a trial run but the whole investment failed and the development stopped. If I recall, the steel for the track was pulled up during WWI for a scrap drive. The ROW is used for power lines and runs between downtown Lakewood and terminates in the vicinity of the canal. I don't think there is any ROW left west of Lakewood.

The rail line you were suggesting for MOM that should parallel I-195 and connect with NEC would be the old Jamesburg branch that connected from Monmouth Junction thru Jamesburg, Englishtown, Freehold, Farmingdale, and terminating in Sea Girt/Manasquan, which, at least partially, was obviously one of the routes desired for Mom and held up by the Jamesburg NIMBYs.

Connecting closer to Trenton defeats the purpose MOM was supposed to provide, which was relief of commuter traffic towards NYC (get cars off the Parkway and Rt 9)

Face it, if the Jamesburg political favors can stop a proposed route on an existing set of tracks that are already in use, there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades that new ROW would be purchased and all new track laid.

And finally, please don't forget that even if the train made it to the NEC, there is no current slots available to get another train onto the tracks headed Northeast. The best you could hope for would be a transfer station in Dayton or North Brunswick. It sounds almost like you would have a better chance at running a Princeton Style Dinky up the Southern from Lakewood to transfer at Red Bank (but that misses the Freehold Population adder).
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:22 am

You dont need slots to get trains to NYC. Why cant anyone understand that there is a huge communing populus to and from new burnswick area/route 18 corridor?
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby CJPat » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:23 am

Keep in mind, although New Brunswick may be considered a more significant destination then say, Highland Park, it is not a huge employer. It would contribute to the quantity of rail passengers but is not a significant terminus. Merck and J&J have cut very far back in the last 15-20 years. Rutgers is one of the few major employers of that area. There are a lot of jobs, but not huge quantities. Add to that what I said about no more availability of slots onto the NEC for new trains and the NIMBYs of Jamesburg and I it remains a hard uphill battle.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby ApproachMedium » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:21 pm

Commuters doesnt have to be employees, there are plenty of college students and people who use RWJ for health care needs.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby GSC » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:19 pm

A Dinky shuttle between Lakewood and Red Bank would be a good start, and I doubt a lot of NIMBY opposition. Most of the Southern is in lightly populated areas.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby JohnFromJersey » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:51 am

GSC wrote:A Dinky shuttle between Lakewood and Red Bank would be a good start, and I doubt a lot of NIMBY opposition. Most of the Southern is in lightly populated areas.


Problem would be the tracks. They're in really poor shape, and a lot of NIMBY's would add that to their list of "arguments." Plus, why would anyone want to take a 15 MPH shuttle, when they could drive triple, even quadruple that, to a different train station? And even so, you're in your car already for a long drive, so might as well drive to NYC.

Most of the track issues seem to be tie-related, so hopefully they could get it done in a timely and cost-efficient manner. But this is New Jersey, where they always seem to mess things up somehow.

I'd love to see a shuttle service. Not the thing we've been asking for decades, but it's sure better than nothing.
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Re: MOM Rail Service

Postby kilroy » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:43 pm

A shuttle isn't worth the expense. No one wants to change trains, possible multiple times if you need to take a subway or two in NYC.

Until the new Gateway tunnels are built and operational AND the current tunnels rehabilitated, no point is doing anything with MOM or several other NJT rail revivals. Without additional capacity into NYC (and storage as well), everything is a non-starter.

I know not everyone goes to NYC but a vast majority do and nothing will generate the passenger counts needed if it doesn't make getting to NYC easier and/or more economical.
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