West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby CPF363 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:12 am

newpylong wrote:Today is AD-1s last trip to Bennington. From now on all eastbound traffic will go via Bellows Falls. Unknown if CSX traffic will continue this way or also move over. Probably the end of AD-2.

Is there a reason for this change in routing? Who is driving it? For CSX traffic, where would that traffic move to? Is it the objective to close Rotterdam Jct. interchange with CSX?
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby newpylong » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:33 pm

No idea if it's a PAS or VRS move but in the end both have to agree to make the change. My guess is with EDBF already going up there daily it doesn't make sense to take 2 crews to haul it out west to Hoosick Junction anymore.

As I said no news on if the CSX traffic is also bring moved. My guess is it is not. Of course the objective is not to close RJ that's the primary CSX PAS interchange and Schenectady chemical is a huge customer.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby B&M 1227 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:41 pm

rj will not go away unless an ns buyout comes to fruition. as newpy said, schenectady chemical is a huge customer and pays for the entirety of the branch in itself. 14r's have been dropping cars on the east leg the past couple trips. as much as its a bummer that traffic is shifting, it'll certainly free up space. having to keep the east wye and bennington branch clear of cars at all times is a detriment to rj1 operations to and from north benn.
Did we ever hear a music sweeter than the one that thrills, as it floats along the Deerfield, as it echoes o'er the hills.
How we watch that little engine as it stalks across the plain; was there ever music sweeter, was there ever sight completer, than the coming of the train?
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby NHV 669 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:09 am

What does that leave for VRS service south of Rutland to Bennington? Does this eliminate a need for using this line for movements? I'm not too aware of the goings on down in that corner of VT.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby Safetee » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:33 am

WEll if all the Omya traffic flys to Bells falls, the remaining traffic will be sparse. However, there's still at least a half dozen customers between s. Rutland and Hoosic Falls with LPG, lumber, salt, grain, scrap metal coming to mind as current traffic. And, from what I understand, Danby is producing quite a lot of marble for export these days. Maybe some of that can ride the rails again.

While it's hard for me to believe that all VRS traffic to and from the south and west via NS will go all the way around to bellows falls,it is fair to say that the shortest distance between two points for rail traffic is frequently not a straight line.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby NHV 669 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:22 am

True, as long as there's traffic, the train will run. This train has been photographed with the two six-axles they picked up, so it seems like the trains were fairly long for the short runs to Bennington.

My concern rests in the state of the line. I passed it infrequently when taking US 7 to school out in NY from 07-09, and the tracks were in rough shape. I recall a discussion here or via e-mail that stated work was being done to keep it at a solid 10, or raise it to 25 (I don't recall). I'm unfamiliar how many cars this shift in traffic will affect, so that is the cause for my questioning of whether the line was still sustainable.

I guess that brings up a different question: If AD-1 is no longer serving the area, where does VRS exchange the traffic coming from those customers you speak of besides BF? I assume not all the cars would use that as the most effiecient routing. Or is this the case as you say above? I can't imagine VRS running all the way out there, just to take the cars back east and send them down the Gateway.
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Living near right-of-ways since 1989. Old haunts include: childhood sightings of 669 being the last to "de-rust" the Berlin branch, late 90's summers trackside at the Wagon Wheel of Biddeford, ME, White River Junction, VT, Oneonta, NY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Santa Barbara, CA.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby Safetee » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:26 pm

Historically speaking , VRS ran this line with no southern connection to Guilford for a lonnng time. if you research things you would find that the ownership and operation of the line between n bennington and hoosick falls has been very interesting. I believe that today vtr or the state of vt actually owns and operates/dispatches that track now.

In any case,most of todays customers were there in the no southern connection days. The biggest change that has happened is that the state of vermont in the slightly wishful thinking anticipation of a Green mountain flyer like passenger service to NYC mainly in western vt and not in new york , spent a small fortune installing 127 pound welded rail, ties and ballast from manchester to hoosick ny. I'm not good with dates but that was in the last 15 years. in the mean time, the vtr has installed a variety of wood, stone, and rail between manchester and rutland. And thanks to irene, they have also replaced some bridges in the past few years. It's not the tokaido line by any means but vtr can get over it pretty easily at a pretty good clip, (i'm guessing at least 20 to 30) south of manchester. In the early 80s the track was very poor barely if class 1, but not so today. the proof of the pudding is the current use of six axle power on the B&R. in 1985 that kind of power would have spent more time on the ground than on the rail. I'm not clear how good it is north of manchester but it's got to be at least class 1 or 10 mph for the propane traffic.

so where will those cars come from with no PAuSe in hoosick? well i think that a bunch of them already come in from the d&H via whitehall and i'm guessing that the lingering pases will meander from bellows falls.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby newpylong » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:06 pm

That is a very accurate asessment. The VTR ran for 20 years without the Hoosick Junction connection they will find a way again, if it comes to that (I doubt it will.) I have not confirmed yet whether the westbounds (CSX, NS and CPs) have been effected so in reality it might not be a big switch routing wise for the non eastbound traffic.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby CPF363 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:40 am

Can't understand why they would want to bridge CSX and CP bound freight over the VTR incurring another waybill and out-of-the-way routing verses going on their own line.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby newpylong » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:06 pm

CPF363 wrote:Can't understand why they would want to bridge CSX and CP bound freight over the VTR incurring another waybill and out-of-the-way routing verses going on their own line.


?

We are talking VTR westbound traffic not Pan Am.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby CPF363 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:49 pm

newpylong wrote:
CPF363 wrote:Can't understand why they would want to bridge CSX and CP bound freight over the VTR incurring another waybill and out-of-the-way routing verses going on their own line.


?

We are talking VTR westbound traffic not Pan Am.

I misunderstood you. VTR's CSX bound traffic would be re-routed via Bellows Falls to Deerfield to Rotterdam.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby fogg1703 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:30 am

newpylong wrote:My guess is with EDBF already going up there daily it doesn't make sense to take 2 crews to haul it out west to Hoosick Junction anymore.


Wasn't the shift already planned with the reinstitution of BFED/EDBF a few years ago? Realigning traffic patterns for VRS/CMQ traffic along with the Claremont propane traffic and muscling in on NECR business IIRC was the reason to bring back that train. It was also my understanding the few remaining local VRS B&R CSX traffic would continue to be set out at Hoosick Jct instead of NB, due to the abolishment of AD-1 and negating a trip east for RJ-1.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby newpylong » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:31 am

loaded grain train BNSF engines through North Adams 0930.
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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby park » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:44 pm

It appears the switch has been made. I heard the GMRC dispatcher speaking to #264 this afternoon (Saturday) so drove over to Riverside. There was a long cut of OMYA tankers sitting in the yard so the GMRC must have brought them down today. To my surprise I then found a PAR power set in the yard with SD40 #608 leading. Six axles for PAR are very rare on the Conn-River although the NECR uses them all the time. There was no crew around so maybe the set will be sitting there for the evening.

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Re: West-of-Deerfield Gawking

Postby B&M 1227 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:12 pm

My understanding is that only eastbound loads are traveling the green mountain. AD-1/2 still take the empties to North Bennington but now ferry cars billed to/from NS between Hoosick Jct and North Bennington. They usually return to East Deerfield light engine from Hoosick Jct. 14r/11r make set outs and pick ups respectively at HooJct, and RJ-1/XO-1 run Su/Tu/Th to make the CSX connection.
Did we ever hear a music sweeter than the one that thrills, as it floats along the Deerfield, as it echoes o'er the hills.
How we watch that little engine as it stalks across the plain; was there ever music sweeter, was there ever sight completer, than the coming of the train?
-E. A. Fitch
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