Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:05 am

Disney Guy wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:And not opening the direct Blue Line entrance is a crime and the decision makers should be imprisoned

There would be no urge to open the Blue Line to street exit for passengers unless an elevator could be installed there for full accessibility's sake.


ADA does not require that every entrance have an elevator
jamesinclair
 
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:22 pm

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Arlington » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:24 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
Disney Guy wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:And not opening the direct Blue Line entrance is a crime and the decision makers should be imprisoned
There would be no urge to open the Blue Line to street exit for passengers unless an elevator could be installed there for full accessibility's sake.
ADA does not require that every entrance have an elevator

I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington
 
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:51 am
Location: Medford MA (was Arlington MA and Arlington VA)

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby BandA » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:03 pm

Misting underground is going to lead to mold problems. Did they install extra ventilation, HEPA air filters, or dehumidifiers?

If the curve is too sharp, redesign the station. Oh wait, they just did.

Also cause rust.
User avatar
BandA
 
Posts: 1899
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Charliemta » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:43 pm

Why not spray a fine oil mist, instead of water mist, onto the curved track? No rust, no mold.
Long live the "El"
User avatar
Charliemta
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:51 pm

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Echo33d » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:57 am

jamesinclair wrote:
Disney Guy wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:And not opening the direct Blue Line entrance is a crime and the decision makers should be imprisoned

There would be no urge to open the Blue Line to street exit for passengers unless an elevator could be installed there for full accessibility's sake.


ADA does not require that every entrance have an elevator


It may not require that every entrance have an elevator, but I'm pretty sure any station with two entrances is required to be fully accessible at both. I think the requirement is 60% of entrances or something like that.
Echo33d
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:08 pm

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby diburning » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:00 am

Charliemta wrote:Why not spray a fine oil mist, instead of water mist, onto the curved track? No rust, no mold.


Being in a confined area (the station) I'd assume that it would be an inhalation hazard.
User avatar
diburning
 
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Practicing safe CSX by using Three-Step Protection

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby jamesinclair » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:19 am

Arlington wrote:I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.


Its all about maintain equal access. In the case of Yawkey, if disabled users have to go 10 minutes out of their way on a massive circuitous route, then access is not equal. However, in this case, it would be a 2 minute difference which would be warranted by engineering burdens, so it would be ok.

You have to justify the decisions and show you arent creating an undue burden for the disabled.
jamesinclair
 
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:22 pm

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby leviramsey » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:42 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
Arlington wrote:I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.


Its all about maintain equal access. In the case of Yawkey, if disabled users have to go 10 minutes out of their way on a massive circuitous route, then access is not equal. However, in this case, it would be a 2 minute difference which would be warranted by engineering burdens, so it would be ok.

You have to justify the decisions and show you arent creating an undue burden for the disabled.


What's the cost of an elevator over and above the stairs? Call it a million bucks.
What's the cost of justifying the decision to not build the elevator, considering the appeals and suits? Somewhere around $500k - $1m (thousands of billable hours at over $100 per). On top of that, there's the chance that the courts find that a 2 minute difference isn't warranted by the engineering burdens, in which case trying to build it without the elevator cost you $1.5m-$2m (and, importantly for a political organization, results in no small embarrassment).
leviramsey
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:12 pm

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Rbts Stn » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:17 am

Already leaking:

Image
User avatar
Rbts Stn
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:09 pm
Location: waiting for an "A" train to Watertown

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:49 am

This was a good take on what happened.

http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/ind ... _cent.html
User avatar
Adams_Umass_Boston
 
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Eastie

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Rbts Stn » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:58 am

I hope that's all it is, but any article that has a paragraph that starts off like this:

A number of feet away, a portion of the ceiling could be heard dripping onto the tracks, as a wet spot formed beneath an ad for New England Revolution soccer matches.


makes me worry about the journalistic integrity associated with the writing. If you can't even have an editor do you have a fact checker?
User avatar
Rbts Stn
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:09 pm
Location: waiting for an "A" train to Watertown

Re: Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Postby Disney Guy » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:17 am

A long term fix would require re-waterproofing the top of the tunnel roof, which is 100 odd years old. This is impractical today because of the need to tear up the street and streetscape above.

Water leaks desiring similar treatment exist all over the system. A few others come to mind:
Maverick, west end over inbound track.
Downtown Crossing, east end of westbound Red Line platform.
Park St., middle of eastbound Red Line platform.
Tufts, middle of outbound platform (leaking when tunnel was less than 25 years old).l
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
User avatar
Disney Guy
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Nashua, NH

Previous

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: leviramsey, rmccown and 8 guests