Late Night Service Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby BandA » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:59 pm

When late night service was added, how did it affect the hour or so before? Did riders shift to later trains, or were these new trips? Obviously not enough of them, but something should be learned from the data.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby jamesinclair » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:31 am

bostontrainguy wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:"Members of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority’s Fiscal and Management Control Board on Wednesday seemed open to abandoning the weekend bus and subway service, which runs until 2 a.m. Saturday and Sunday mornings, to cut costs."

Actually the last trains usually leave Park Street just after 1 AM anyway (i.e., 1:06 AM), so it's not even an hour extra service. They really don't need very frequent service, trains at 1:15, 1:30, 1:45, and 2:00 might be all that is necessary to serve the late night market. There are enough crossovers to bypass certain stretches of track or shuttles could be set up if extensive repairs have to be done somewhere.


Thats not true
http://mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subw ... oute=GREEN

Last train leaves Park at 2:10 AM

Which in practice means 2:20


You are looking at the public schedule. As I said, the trains actually leave after 1:00 AM during the week. Late night service is only about one hour later. They could reschedule all last trains to leave Park at 2:00 AM and close everything down about 1 hour later than usual.


Sorry I misread your post.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:48 am

It's over. Effective with the Spring schedule (end of March) the "Night Owl" is dead . . . again!
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby jamesinclair » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:24 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:It's over. Effective with the Spring schedule (end of March) the "Night Owl" is dead . . . again!


I sense a strong correlation between adequately providing transportation services in urban areas and the party holding the governors office.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:37 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:It's over. Effective with the Spring schedule (end of March) the "Night Owl" is dead . . . again!


I sense a strong correlation between adequately providing transportation services in urban areas and the party holding the governors office.


Actually, the bus service in "urban areas" is more generous than most. Check out the Route 28 schedule (right through the heart of Mattapan/Dudley/Ruggles) and you will see that it starts at 3:20 AM and runs until 1:40 AM. That's almost 24 hour service and more service than any other line I believe.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby BandA » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:50 am

The MBTA is insolvent. It has the highest costs of any transit agency in the country. Overtime is (was last year) out of control. GLX is out of control. They can't provide reliable service at rush hour. Nothing to do with the party in charge and everything to do with corruption & mismanagement. That's why we can't have good things around here.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby Rockingham Racer » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:06 am

I agree, but what we all would really like to know is what's behind "why we can't have good things around here."

As an outsider, I would also ask again: why are people putting up with shoddy service? There seems to be no cogent "voice of the riders", or if there is, that voice seems not to make much of a difference in the way things go in Beantown transit.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby deathtopumpkins » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 am

Rockingham Racer wrote:As an outsider, I would also ask again: why are people putting up with shoddy service? There seems to be no cogent "voice of the riders", or if there is, that voice seems not to make much of a difference in the way things go in Beantown transit.


Check out the local news sometime. People are pissed. The public meetings on fare increases and new schedules are well-attended, the local news has a piece trying to stir sentiment against the T practically every day, and arguably the most popular small talk subject behind the weather is how much everyone hates the T.

We put up with it because we have no choice. There are a lot of Bostonians who depend on the T for transportation. Most people who can switch to driving, cycling, etc. already have. The people who are most dependent on the T for day-to-day transportation are the people politicians (especially the current administration) are least likely to care about.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby NH2060 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:17 pm

Late night service to end March 18th:

http://patch.com/massachusetts/boston/m ... -service-0

Honestly the T would have to extend hours of service on the subway, bus, and commuter rail for this to really work. With the last outbound train leaving the city between 11:30pm-12:15am that really doesn't allow you to do all that much. Very little doubt that even just one additional train on all lines @ 1:00am or 1:30am would net a lot of additional ridership since it would mean those out in the 'burbs would be able to get more time to enjoy the nightlife in the city without checking their watch in agony so early. I took the last train to Rockport quite a number of times and from what I saw it was well patronaged (though the crowds could get a tad rowdy ;-))
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby CRail » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:02 am

BandA wrote:The MBTA is insolvent. It has the highest costs of any transit agency in the country. Overtime is (was last year) out of control. GLX is out of control. They can't provide reliable service at rush hour. Nothing to do with the party in charge and everything to do with corruption & mismanagement. That's why we can't have good things around here.

1.) No transit authority is "solvent," that's why it's a gov't agency and not a private venture.
2.) Please provide sources for your data regarding costs. The claim that its costs are higher than any other transit agency is baseless.
3.) Overtime is the result of understaffing. This happens because it's cheaper to pay an already employed person to work extra than it is to employ a new person. It wasn't "out of control" either, it was deliberately employed in lieu of proper manpower levels.
4.) The level of service is reliable enough that ridership continues to increase. Most reliability issues are the result of ridership exceeding capacity, which blatantly opposes the theory that the service is "unacceptable." Everyone loves to complain but reality tells a very different story than negative rhetoric.
5.) Things like late night service are very political and decisions to implement/abolish such services are directly related to those who hold office in the Commonwealth and Boston proper.

I'm so tired of that garbage, leave it in the Herald where it belongs.


In my opinion, it was operated the way it was to prove that it can't be done. It seems that no thought was put into how to properly implement and operate the service. Blanketing the region with a standard level service rather than tailoring it to the areas which need it is the sole purpose its numbers were sub par, and it was obvious that would happen. The fact that (I'm going to talk about buses now) Mt. Auburn street in Cambridge had two bus routes operating over it while not a single line operated between Forest Hills and Roslindale Square is a key example of the blatant disregard for operating to serve the ridership, as are the empty trains to and from Newton at the same frequency as sardine canned cars on Commonwealth and Huntington Avenues. The same 6 car trains that operate at 7:30 in the morning and 5:30 in the evening are out there at 2:30 at night? No one from up top thought, gee we could probably leave 4 of them at the end of the line... No, because they needed those empty trains and buses to prove that they weren't being ridden, and thus, they manufactured a failure to keep from having to serve a demographic they didn't want to.

If you don't want to be the one to do the dishes, you do such a crummy job that you'll never be allowed to do it again. That's what we saw here.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby typesix » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:03 pm

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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby BandA » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:38 pm

OMG. Since white folks from the suburbs overwhelmingly commute at rush hour, they should have no trouble proving that this will "disproportionally affect people of color". Also, from now on any pilot service will be given no more than 12 months to prove itself.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:38 am

Seriously? Most of the ridership was affluent white college students out for a night of fun.
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby jamesinclair » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:19 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:Seriously? Most of the ridership was affluent white college students out for a night of fun.


And you have the detailed data that proves this on hand?
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Re: Late Night Service Discussion

Postby bostontrainguy » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:12 am

jamesinclair wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:Seriously? Most of the ridership was affluent white college students out for a night of fun.


And you have the detailed data that proves this on hand?



Just ride it.
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