Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Transit

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby diburning » Fri May 11, 2012 10:50 pm

The airport tram in Hong Kong does that too.

I think the problem with such a system is that at this point it would be too expensive.

The gates themselves cost money, and all of the operators would need to be retrained to spot the train at a specific spot (right now, close enough is good enough as long as all the doors are on the platform).

Not to mention that there might be some sort of safety issue involved in case of a disabled train (We probably have more stringent safety laws here)

OPTO on the red line seems to be working now. Station dwell times are a bit longer than before, and it did change the (observed) headways a bit, but things are running smoothly now.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby BostonUrbEx » Fri May 11, 2012 11:21 pm

ZPTO/NPTO, fully articulated train sets, an honor fare system, $500 evasion fines, and inspectors walking throughout each train checking for POP, kicking ass, and taking names.

Now that's the dream.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Head-end View » Sat May 12, 2012 11:26 am

In the French news article, that Paris subway train had a huge front window, similar to New York's JFK Airport Airtrain. Hey Rob, want to take a trip to Paris?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Arlington » Sat May 12, 2012 12:58 pm

diburning wrote: and all of the operators would need to be retrained to spot the train at a specific spot (right now, close enough is good enough as long as all the doors are on the platform).

If you need to stop precisely--with our without platform doors--you don't retrain the operator, you get a computer. With OPTO, you don't need platform doors, but stopping precisely is still good for using the video monitors and helping vision-impared users (and everyone else) line up for the doors.

When ZPTO's day comes, the savings of the driver are partly offset by the cost of the platform doors, its true, but then the platform doors get you big savings by keeping trash off the tracks, operational gains from no jumping/falling on the tracks, and the possibility of air conditioning.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Mon May 14, 2012 3:04 am

Arlington wrote:
diburning wrote: and all of the operators would need to be retrained to spot the train at a specific spot (right now, close enough is good enough as long as all the doors are on the platform).

If you need to stop precisely--with our without platform doors--you don't retrain the operator, you get a computer. With OPTO, you don't need platform doors, but stopping precisely is still good for using the video monitors and helping vision-impared users (and everyone else) line up for the doors.

When ZPTO's day comes, the savings of the driver are partly offset by the cost of the platform doors, its true, but then the platform doors get you big savings by keeping trash off the tracks, operational gains from no jumping/falling on the tracks, and the possibility of air conditioning.


The MBTA could easily get platform doors for free.

Actually, it would cost $5,000

1) Pay well known researcher/reporter $5,000 to write report stating that the MBTA is in terrible danger of attacks by TERRORISTS due to ease of access to tracks by TERRORISTS.
2) Have report state that the best method to stop TERRORISTS are platform doors.
3) Wait a few months
4) Receive check from Homeland Security for system-wide platform doors to stop TERRORISTS
5) Install platform doors to great benefit of riders and obtain actual safety benefits (less suicides/accidents)
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Robert Paniagua » Mon May 14, 2012 9:47 am

Head-end View wrote:In the French news article, that Paris subway train had a huge front window, similar to New York's JFK Airport Airtrain. Hey Rob, want to take a trip to Paris?


Actuallly I experienced a similar view on the NPTO JFK Airtrain! Id love to do France too... Now I agree that back here on the Red Line and MBTA Blue and Orange Lines, they should install those screen doors like the JFK AirTrain.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby Arlington » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:31 am

Been 3 years, how is One Person Train Ops on heavy rail going? Seems to have gone pretty well.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby The EGE » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:57 am

Anecdotally I want to say that it's a little bit of a problem at a handful of stations at rush hour - DTX (OL and RL), Park (RL), and State (OL). There, there are often so many people mobbing the train that it would be easier if there was an operator who could close off only certain cars. But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:15 pm

The EGE wrote:But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.


Bingo.

If we had the equipment numbers/reliability and the signalling to allow for on-peak headways of less than 10 minutes (1st-world service on the T? perish the thought!), then the crowds at Park, DTC, Kendall, and South Station would be nonissues.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby Gerry6309 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:51 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:
The EGE wrote:But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.


Bingo.

If we had the equipment numbers/reliability and the signalling to allow for on-peak headways of less than 10 minutes (1st-world service on the T? perish the thought!), then the crowds at Park, DTC, Kendall, and South Station would be nonissues.

Every line has an "official" headway of less than 8 minutes. Red Line is 4, 8 on each branch. Reliability of service is the greater issue. Lets increase the force of the door engines to the point where it is impossible to hold the doors open!
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:56 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
The EGE wrote:But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.


Bingo.

If we had the equipment numbers/reliability and the signalling to allow for on-peak headways of less than 10 minutes (1st-world service on the T? perish the thought!), then the crowds at Park, DTC, Kendall, and South Station would be nonissues.

Every line has an "official" headway of less than 8 minutes. Red Line is 4, 8 on each branch. Reliability of service is the greater issue. Lets increase the force of the door engines to the point where it is impossible to hold the doors open!


Hah. "Official".
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby Gerry6309 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:10 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:
Gerry6309 wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
The EGE wrote:But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.


Bingo.

If we had the equipment numbers/reliability and the signalling to allow for on-peak headways of less than 10 minutes (1st-world service on the T? perish the thought!), then the crowds at Park, DTC, Kendall, and South Station would be nonissues.

Every line has an "official" headway of less than 8 minutes. Red Line is 4, 8 on each branch. Reliability of service is the greater issue. Lets increase the force of the door engines to the point where it is impossible to hold the doors open!


Hah. "Official".

All MBTA rolling stock should be painted green or yellow: Time slips and they come in bunches. Hey Mr. Tallyman...
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The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby jonnhrr » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:49 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
Gerry6309 wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
The EGE wrote:But that's a problem not caused by OPTO, and it otherwise seems to be going well.


Bingo.

If we had the equipment numbers/reliability and the signalling to allow for on-peak headways of less than 10 minutes (1st-world service on the T? perish the thought!), then the crowds at Park, DTC, Kendall, and South Station would be nonissues.

Every line has an "official" headway of less than 8 minutes. Red Line is 4, 8 on each branch. Reliability of service is the greater issue. Lets increase the force of the door engines to the point where it is impossible to hold the doors open!


Hah. "Official".

All MBTA rolling stock should be painted green or yellow: Time slips and they come in bunches. Hey Mr. Tallyman...


You know evening rush hour is really disrupted if people are singing "daylight's coming and I want to go home".
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby CRail » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:15 am

Dwelling times are increased across the board which hurts headways because while those Green Line passengers are running down the stairs in a perfectly spaced single file formation Downtown Crossing and South Station are getting more and more crowded, door incidents are way up according to line officials (although I lack any hard data), and the number of platform attendants which were to be eliminated over time through attrition hasn't dwindled. Still, the MBTA has seen 2 fare hikes and continues to be 'irresponsibly in debt' despite the fact that they heroically abolished the lowest paid classification in transportation.

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Tra

Postby diburning » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:12 am

I got off at Park street the other day. The poor platform person (you know, the guy who jumps up and down waving the flashlight to tell the operator whether it's ok to close the doors?) was almost trampled and was hanging on for dear life from the wave of people getting off. That guy is there because the cameras don't give a clear view of every door and doesn't show everything going on. That position will be there for a while, especially at Park St.

As for Central Sq on the other hand, I haven't seen any sort of CSA or MBTA employee anywhere at that station in months.
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