Fare evasion

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Re: Fare evasion

Postby saulblum » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:25 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:… if their was any real organizational desire to do so.


This last part was all you needed to add.

T management over the past eight years has shown no desire to innovate with fare collection after the initial Charlie rollout was completed.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Cosmo » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:42 pm

That's because the Charlie Cards ere supposed to be advanced enough that they wouldn't HAVE to innovate for a while! :P
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:45 pm

MattW wrote:Why don't they just activate tap to exit? It works well for Atlanta's MARTA.

Boston's faregates don't have the card readers installed for tap-to-exit. And it would be impossible to implement that on the surface part of the Green Line altogether.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:21 am

Though looking back at that equally short-sighted decision by the T, one wonders what WMATA/RATP/Tube-style variable fares might have done for the T's bottom line.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby StevieC48 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:21 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:
diburning wrote:The ADA gates also function as gates for larger-than-life Americans, and people with luggage.

And yet for some idiotic reason, 2 of Airport Station's 3 ADA gates are at the entrance that doesn't get hordes of people dragging luggage along.


The old airport station at the turnstyles next them was a luggage slide next to it, So they were able to use a regular turnstyle exiting and arriving.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Red Wing » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:19 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:Though looking back at that equally short-sighted decision by the T, one wonders what WMATA/RATP/Tube-style variable fares might have done for the T's bottom line.


Isn't this one of the reasons we got the Charlie Card was to do away with the exit fares on the Red Line and increased fares on the D Branch?
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby jackintosh11 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:00 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:So build in a pre-pay pass system using the same RFID chips in the charliecards where you tap your card, buy a pass for the appropriate zone that you swipe over a portable card scanner that the conductor carries (and to speed things up on the outbound side of things, build rows of freestanding tap-and-go stations by the doors to each of the platforms at North Station, South Station, and the busy inside-128 stations like Porter, back Bay, etc).

What about Amtrak? The farragoes are being used by SEPTA because their service doesn't use Amtrak platforms in Center City. Would there be some sort of door to let amtrak passengers through?
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby MBTA3247 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:13 pm

Red Wing wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:Though looking back at that equally short-sighted decision by the T, one wonders what WMATA/RATP/Tube-style variable fares might have done for the T's bottom line.


Isn't this one of the reasons we got the Charlie Card was to do away with the exit fares on the Red Line and increased fares on the D Branch?

The CharlieCard was introduced simultaneously with the change in fare structure that eliminated the double/triple fares on the Riverside and Braintree lines, but was not necessary to eliminate those fare oddities (I'm sure the T could've reset the Braintree line's turnstiles for single fare entrance and no exit fare at any time). However, given the T's apparent near-total lack of access to how the Charlie system is configured, it wouldn't surprise me if the new system had forced the elimination of the double fares by making such oddities "impossible" to configure.

jackintosh11 wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:So build in a pre-pay pass system using the same RFID chips in the charliecards where you tap your card, buy a pass for the appropriate zone that you swipe over a portable card scanner that the conductor carries (and to speed things up on the outbound side of things, build rows of freestanding tap-and-go stations by the doors to each of the platforms at North Station, South Station, and the busy inside-128 stations like Porter, back Bay, etc).

What about Amtrak? The farragoes are being used by SEPTA because their service doesn't use Amtrak platforms in Center City. Would there be some sort of door to let amtrak passengers through?

I think he's talking about fare validators like what they have at the stations on the Riverside line, not full-fledged faregates. Although I'm not sure how much that would speed things up, since the conductors would still have to scan everyone's cards to verify payment (unless the fare validators issued receipts stating as such, which would greatly slow down the boarding process). It would be better, I think, to have cards with integrated e-ink displays that can show what pass is on the card so the conductor can simply read it visually.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby sery2831 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:39 am

MBTA3247 wrote:The CharlieCard was introduced simultaneously with the change in fare structure that eliminated the double/triple fares on the Riverside and Braintree lines, but was not necessary to eliminate those fare oddities (I'm sure the T could've reset the Braintree line's turnstiles for single fare entrance and no exit fare at any time). However, given the T's apparent near-total lack of access to how the Charlie system is configured, it wouldn't surprise me if the new system had forced the elimination of the double fares by making such oddities "impossible" to configure.



The exit fare was still in effect when Charlie was introduced on the Braintree end of the Red Line. They installed two sets of gates, one facing each way. Also the Riverside Branch also charged the double fare inbound. All the oddities changed in one of the fare increases, not when Charlie arrived.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Gerry6309 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:48 pm

sery2831 wrote:
MBTA3247 wrote:The CharlieCard was introduced simultaneously with the change in fare structure that eliminated the double/triple fares on the Riverside and Braintree lines, but was not necessary to eliminate those fare oddities (I'm sure the T could've reset the Braintree line's turnstiles for single fare entrance and no exit fare at any time). However, given the T's apparent near-total lack of access to how the Charlie system is configured, it wouldn't surprise me if the new system had forced the elimination of the double fares by making such oddities "impossible" to configure.



The exit fare was still in effect when Charlie was introduced on the Braintree end of the Red Line. They installed two sets of gates, one facing each way. Also the Riverside Branch also charged the double fare inbound. All the oddities changed in one of the fare increases, not when Charlie arrived.

The elimination of the exit fares etc. was intended to take some of the bite out of the fare increase. Charlie Cards became active on December 1, 2007, while the fare increase took effect on January 1, 2008.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby CRail » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:04 am

Yes but Charlie Tickets and fare gates were in service prior to that. The proximity cards were the last part of the system to be implemented. The extra fare zones on the green line were offset by charging outbound fares on the surface which was free beforehand.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby boblothrope » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:56 pm

CRail wrote:They're not ADA gates, the ADA gates are the ones nearest the old collectors' booths that say "REDUCED FARE" on them. Those faregates are bigger to prevent someone from jumping over them and are located where no one is around to stop them.


Any wide gate is an ADA gate. And every entrance has at least one wide gate. At first, senior/TAP cards were only valid at the wide gates, which included the ones at secondary entrances.

They later eliminated this restriction, so there's no reason for any gate to be labelled "reduced fare" any more.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby CRail » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:06 am

The question was why were gates designated for ADA compliance located at the bottom of a stairway, and the correct answer to the question is what I responded with. Don't wear out your fine tooth comb.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby diburning » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:11 am

The wider "reduced fare" gates were also used for student passes. I was a high school student at the time, and I remember how my pass would only work at those gates. The regular gates would display an error message saying "Use Reduced Fare Gate" if a student pass was used on it, and the reduced fare gate would display an error saying "Reduced Fares Only" if a regular card or ticket was used on them.
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