Fare evasion

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Fare evasion

Postby Yellowspoon » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:57 pm

Most times that I take a train from Waban in the late afternoon or evening, the train is crowded by Newton Center especially if there is a Bruins/Celtics/Sox game that evening. Once the train is crowded, it's not uncommon for the operator to open all the doors from that point to Fenway. While many board at the front and pay their fare, as many as 3-10 simply get on a rear door and sit down. I realize that there is a possibility that they have a monthly pass, but I tend to doubt it as many look like colleges students, (or have Bruins/Celtics/Sox shirts on their way to a game).
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Gerry6309 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:22 pm

Question: Which is more important to you, getting where you are going in a timely manner or making sure that the MBTA gets every cent it is due?

The only solution is full prepayment at every stop - very difficult to implement, or a conductor at every center door - very expensive.

it seems unfair, but the trade-off is revenue vs. expense. Is it worth spending millions to collect a few $10Ks in fares?
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Diverging Route » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:21 pm

Another troublesome place is Red Line Kendall Station, inbound, at the south (unattended) entrance. There are two ADA Charlie gates there (why ADA -- when only a staircase reaches the street?). "Tailgating" is rampant, especially during the 3-6pm timeframe. From my observation, some of the most frequent tailgaters are construction workers heading home.

In addition to tailgating, oftentimes I'll see passengers inside fare control "open" the gates for people, by waving their hands on the exit sensors.

This entrance needs full-height turnstiles such as NYC's HEETs. Since there's a staircase at this end, no need for ADA compatibility - that's accomplished at the other end of the platform.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby diburning » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:52 pm

The ADA gates also function as gates for larger-than-life Americans, and people with luggage.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Diverging Route » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:16 pm

diburning wrote:The ADA gates also function as gates for larger-than-life Americans, and people with luggage.


True, but the other end of the station can serve those purposes. Interesting, however, that there are some stations in NYC where one can exit ONLY using the HEETs during off-peak.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby StevieC48 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:31 am

Is the T still having thoughts of the POP "Proof of Payment"? or did they change their minds. Cause the Type 8''s are set up to run with one operator if they wanted too. They 8 have door set up switches like they do on the rapid transit cars where you can set the trains doors to operate from the first car without other operators on the other cars. Not sure but don't think the Type 7's didn't get that modification when Breda did their mods to the 7s and was not done on midlife overhauls either. Maybe the Type9's might get the door set up switch too. Something to think about
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:59 am

diburning wrote:The ADA gates also function as gates for larger-than-life Americans, and people with luggage.

And yet for some idiotic reason, 2 of Airport Station's 3 ADA gates are at the entrance that doesn't get hordes of people dragging luggage along.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby CRail » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:58 pm

They're not ADA gates, the ADA gates are the ones nearest the old collectors' booths that say "REDUCED FARE" on them. Those faregates are bigger to prevent someone from jumping over them and are located where no one is around to stop them.
Yellowspoon wrote:...there is a possibility that they have a monthly pass, but I tend to doubt it as many look like colleges students

Why wouldn't a college student have a pass? Most of them live, work, and play around the city so it certainly makes a ton of sense to have a pass, certainly more so than commuters who ride once in the morning and once in the evening.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:32 pm

Given this whole discussion, it's still a total mystery to me why the T doesn't simply phase out the paper tickets and go to a 100% tap-and-go system. That would do wonders for station dwell times on the Green Line (vs waiting for granny to remember which side the stripe faces on her pass) while allowing the T to get much, much more aggressive with fare evasion policing.

In London, TFL has pushed for damn near everyone, tourists included, to get tap-and-go oyster cards, and on lines where fare evasion is a problem, they now routinely have tube policemen walking up and down the trains with a portable reader to make sure that everyone on the train has tapped "in". If you haven't, you get a ticket on the spot and your card is charged the full potential fare. It's simple, and it gets the job done.

An added benefit is that a 100% tap-and-go system makes it much, much easier to go to a pre-pay system on light rail lines. TFL set up Oystercard vending machines at most of their DLR stations, with gate-free tap-and-go prepay readers at most smaller DLR stations, just like these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card#mediaviewer/File:Oystercard_readers.jpg
If we're talking about the Green Line, the T could, for a fairly modest sum, install these at all above-ground GL stations while wiring the trains so a single operator can open/close all doors in a consist. Replace the second driver with a roving fare enforcer to keep the unions happy and ensure that folks are actually tapping in, and you could simultaneously cut dwell times AND fare evasion rates.

The fact that the T has tap-and-go hardware installed system-wide but relies on paper tickets just like WMATA with their wonderfully quaint Carter-era electronic fare system does is absolutely mind-boggling to me.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:03 pm

I was up at Orient Heights last month and people had figured out how to jump the glass partisans on the stairwells. The T put up these ugly plywood covers to stop it.

At Wood Island, I watched a man on the opposite platform and wait for a train to come into the station. He used this to block his actions. He could reach through the bars and press the panic bar on the emergency exit. He got a free ride.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby The EGE » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:31 pm

CRail wrote:Why wouldn't a college student have a pass? Most of them live, work, and play around the city so it certainly makes a ton of sense to have a pass, certainly more so than commuters who ride once in the morning and once in the evening.


The average college student isn't riding near as frequently as a commuter, though. Except for students who commute to class (largely BU and Harvard students in Allston) and those who work far off campus - both groups usually do have a pass, most students do not need the T to get to class. It currently takes 36 rides per month to make a monthly pass break even. Most commuters riding twice per weekday will average 40-45 riders per month; most of the college students I know average 5 to 15.

There is supposedly progress being made towards a different pass type for university students; however, I am not privy to the details.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Gerry6309 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:34 pm

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:I was up at Orient Heights last month and people had figured out how to jump the glass partisans on the stairwells. The T put up these ugly plywood covers to stop it.

At Wood Island, I watched a man on the opposite platform and wait for a train to come into the station. He used this to block his actions. He could reach through the bars and press the panic bar on the emergency exit. He got a free ride.

For some people - it's a game. I have seen kids climb up on the gate , reach over the high barrier and wave a hockey stick to open the gate, letting five or six kids in. They don't care about the video surveillance, gone before the cops arrive.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby saulblum » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:39 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:Given this whole discussion, it's still a total mystery to me why the T doesn't simply phase out the paper tickets and go to a 100% tap-and-go system.


Impossible till T management figures out how to move commuter rail payments to the 21st century.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:32 pm

saulblum wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:Given this whole discussion, it's still a total mystery to me why the T doesn't simply phase out the paper tickets and go to a 100% tap-and-go system.


Impossible till T management figures out how to move commuter rail payments to the 21st century.


So build in a pre-pay pass system using the same RFID chips in the charliecards where you tap your card, buy a pass for the appropriate zone that you swipe over a portable card scanner that the conductor carries (and to speed things up on the outbound side of things, build rows of freestanding tap-and-go stations by the doors to each of the platforms at North Station, South Station, and the busy inside-128 stations like Porter, back Bay, etc).

Individual trips for non-passolders could be accomplished at stations by having people swipe their charliecard/tap-and-go pass (and allowing them to carry a balance on their subway passes for use on the CR) at the ticket machine to get a dated receipt that they can give the conductor, or on the train by having the conductor plug the zone into their reader before the user swipes.

All of that is nothing new, and could be implemented for a relatively paltry sum of money if their was any real organizational desire to do so.
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Re: Fare evasion

Postby MattW » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:23 pm

Why don't they just activate tap to exit? It works well for Atlanta's MARTA.
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