MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby boblothrope » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:35 pm

CRail wrote:Stop consolidation has done wonders for the key bus routes.


Do you have any data? In my (limited) experience, trips aren't any faster, but I've had to walk much farther to find a stop.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby diburning » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:39 pm

The stop consolidation on the route 57 bus makes it seem a bit faster (It appears faster to me, I did not actually time them though). Instead of stopping at every green line station, (every other traffic light) vehicles can now blow through them.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby deathtopumpkins » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:59 pm

I still find it funny how the Key Bus Routes program actually made them faster than the parallel trolley routes. Taking the 39 instead of the E or the 57 instead of the B is now the equivalent of express service, yet still has a cheaper fare, the complete opposite of the usual rail/bus setup.

And yes, trip times on the bus itself are faster now, but the stops are spaced so far apart and in such inconvenient places that you end up doing a lot more walking, which lengthens your total trip time
The MBTA is happy though because they only care about trip times once you're actually on the vehicle.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby CRail » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:05 am

deathtopumpkins wrote:The MBTA is happy though because they only care about trip times once you're actually on the vehicle.

And that's how it should be. The MBTA must strive to best serve its ridership, not just you or the guy sitting next to you. Sure, it would be great if it just stopped at everybody's house along the way... except that's not practical and would take forever. The happy medium must be found, and this is certainly an improvement.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby MBTA3247 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:52 am

deathtopumpkins wrote: The MBTA is happy though because they only care about trip times once you're actually on the vehicle.

Not true. When consolidating stops, the T calculates both how much time is saved for the people riding the bus (or trolley) by not making a stop and how much additional time is spent by the users of that stop walking to the next closest stop, and strives to balance the two. This came up during the meeting when someone asked why the 4 stops were being combined into 2 instead of 1.
Last edited by MBTA3247 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby deathtopumpkins » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:04 am

CRail wrote:
deathtopumpkins wrote:The MBTA is happy though because they only care about trip times once you're actually on the vehicle.

And that's how it should be. The MBTA must strive to best serve its ridership, not just you or the guy sitting next to you. Sure, it would be great if it just stopped at everybody's house along the way... except that's not practical and would take forever. The happy medium must be found, and this is certainly an improvement.


This isn't the happy medium though - by no means am I proposing that the T pick everyone up at their front door. I never said that. I'm saying their attempt at stop consolidation just made the service less useful. When I lived along Huntington Ave I would frequently take the 39 or the E between Brigham and Northeastern or Prudential. Then they eliminated more than half the 39's stops, leaving gaps of more than half a mile between some of them, so it is no longer the local trip alternative to the E, and if you're riding it for any intermediate distance it's far faster now to just walk the whole way. And you're likely going to habe a lengthy walk on either end of your trip since they eliminated the convenient stops by major intersections in favor of ones mid-block or at minor intersections.

That's not user-friendly and does nothing to encourage ridership. It does not "best serve its ridership". I'm not complaining about being personally inconvenienced, as I don't live there anymore. And I think stop consolidation is good, I just think the T has a terrible track record with doing it properly.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby CRail » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:10 am

You are complaining about being personally inconvenienced because you're basing your opinion of the change on the sole example how it would affect your former situation. Stop consolidation helps with on time performance, cutting trip times, and reducing dwell times. It helps alleviate bunching and keeps the service moving. It most certainly best serves its ridership and by doing all of the things I mentioned which is exactly how you encourage ridership. Focusing on every little convenience is exactly what waters down the service and gets it declared "unacceptable" by people who accept it by continuing to ride it. It can't be both ways. Especially on a line like the painfully slow BC line, stop consolidation is the right way to go even if some people have to walk an extra block.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby BandA » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:46 am

If it's running more efficiently, ridership should increase or at least stay the same, as measured over a year or two. And labor costs should go down and/or number of vehicles required and/or fewer missed trips.

But if the bus is faster than the trolley running on a dedicated reservation, there is something wrong! Perhaps the trolleys need a higher speed limit.
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Re: MBTA To Cut Down Green Line "B" Branch Stops?

Postby diburning » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:47 pm

Speed limit is not the issue. The issue is all the traffic lights. Most stops are either at or beyond a traffic light. Consolidating some of these stops would eliminate some of the stopping that is done for stations, but won't eliminate the stopping for traffic lights. With the exception of the BU bridge stretch. Traffic lights and road crossings are spaced about every 4-5 car lengths between BU East and Babcock street. Most stops going inbound are right before traffic lights, while most stops going outbound are after the traffic lights. Neither are idea. Going inbound, the train stops at the platform. If the traffic light happens to be green at that time, and turns to red during the station stop, the train then has to wait a whole traffic cycle to move. (The green line signals on Comm Ave have the new housings that display —, ∆, and |, but retain their color). Going outbound, the train has to stop at the traffic light, wait out a cycle of traffic, then proceed past it, stop at the station, then repeat for every block. Consolidating stops in both directions would eliminate some of these station stops, while the traffic stops still exist.

Consolidating stops will shave off a few minutes in both directions. When they eventually install a traffic light system that prioritizes the green line, it will help as well.
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