Green Line Speed Enforcement

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby Mcoov » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:15 pm

FP10 wrote:On topic:
I feel like I've seen one of these before. For some reason I feel like it was either above ground on Comm Ave or underground somewhere around North Station. It's a really fuzzy memory though, anyone remember anything similar?

I remember seeing one at Kenmore a good six or seven years ago.

As for my Haymarket comment, this was two weeks ago. I ride the Green Line through the Tremont Subway often enough to know when a trolley is going too fast, and this guy was driving like he was being chased. I was in the rear car.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby diburning » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:43 pm

Packard's Corner had one for a while.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby BandA » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:47 pm

If the speed limits are too slow, they should be increased. If the speed limits are proper they should be enforced. Fully Automatic Train Operation would be the best way to enforce speed limits on the red/orange/blue lines, maybe even for green. Trains should run faster than they did 75 years ago, but they don't. Is anything being done to engineer faster speeds? Faster means more capacity for the same operating cost.

How many million dollars do these cars cost each? My $99 GPS admonishes me ("Caution!") when I'm 10-15mph over the speed limit. The "T" should automatically know the exact speed, position, and direction of all of their revenue vehicles.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby sery2831 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:04 pm

BandA wrote:
How many million dollars do these cars cost each? My $99 GPS admonishes me ("Caution!") when I'm 10-15mph over the speed limit. The "T" should automatically know the exact speed, position, and direction of all of their revenue vehicles.


The main slow spots are in the tunnels. Making GPS technology work in the tunnels is the expensive part. There are MANY solutions to speeding up the underground part of the Green Line. The bottom line is funding. Until a system is funded, slow trains will have to do.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby BandA » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:12 pm

sery2831 wrote:The main slow spots are in the tunnels. Making GPS technology work in the tunnels is the expensive part. There are MANY solutions to speeding up the underground part of the Green Line. The bottom line is funding. Until a system is funded, slow trains will have to do.
[OT]No satellites in tunnels - switch to RFID or aGPS (cell phone tower positions). How about express tracks, ATO combined with banked turns in tunnel = excitement ;)
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby StevieC48 » Mon May 05, 2014 7:07 pm

Back in the day when I was around that t, there were a few instructors who would sit somewhere, in the tunnel on the viaduct or street and run radar traps for operators. Not sure if this practice is still in use on the green line.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby Gerry6309 » Sat May 10, 2014 3:50 pm

BandA wrote:
sery2831 wrote:The main slow spots are in the tunnels. Making GPS technology work in the tunnels is the expensive part. There are MANY solutions to speeding up the underground part of the Green Line. The bottom line is funding. Until a system is funded, slow trains will have to do.
[OT]No satellites in tunnels - switch to RFID or aGPS (cell phone tower positions). How about express tracks, ATO combined with banked turns in tunnel = excitement ;)

OK let's start making sense here. ATO slows things down - Banked turns speed things up. Try a false stop code on the turns entering South Station on the Red Line. It is disconcerting to sit or stand on a stopped train on a curve which was designed for 35 mph. And even with a clear track, the cab signals only allow 25! Same goes for Harrison Sq., currently on a 10 code. Meanwhile the equipment can go faster and faster. Something's wrong here.

The Tremont Street Subway was designed for cars capable of 25 mph - downhill with a tail wind. Initially there were NO signals and the cars had hand brakes only. Accidents were few and far between and the subway carried twice the traffic it does today. The motormen were perched on a small wooden platform, with only a tiny cast-iron bumper between them and splinters. Open cars were operated from May to September, with rush hour passengers on the running boards, "Hang on, were coming into Boylston". With all these opportunities for disaster, the Elevated won a safety prize so many times that they were banned from competing!

Faster equipment has been the biggest contributor to the recent accident rate, yet there was only one accident at high speed! The problem is that it is harder to perceive speed in the sturdy cab of a Type 7 or 8. The motorperson's eyes belong on the track ahead, not on the speedometer.

Going back to the
275 Type 4s - two major accidents, both brake failures on hills when the cars were elderly.
405 Center Entrance cars - zero major accidents.
471 Type 5s - zero major accidents
346 PCCs - quick accelleration
1941 Car tipped over on curve
1954 Split switch - hit el column
1964 Rear ender at Copley Junction
1967 Rear ender on Lechmere Viaduct
and more…
We know how many involve Type 7 and 8 cars.

And each new car type incurs more damage -which is less repairable.

Something is wrong here.
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Re: Green Line Speed Enforcement

Postby BandM4266 » Tue May 13, 2014 11:33 pm

sery2831 wrote:
BandA wrote:
How many million dollars do these cars cost each? My $99 GPS admonishes me ("Caution!") when I'm 10-15mph over the speed limit. The "T" should automatically know the exact speed, position, and direction of all of their revenue vehicles.


The main slow spots are in the tunnels. Making GPS technology work in the tunnels is the expensive part. There are MANY solutions to speeding up the underground part of the Green Line. The bottom line is funding. Until a system is funded, slow trains will have to do.


Does the new system in testing over on the Mattapan line use GPS satellite signals or some other type of technology ?
I was under impression that this system was to be tested on PCC's then moved over to Greeenline. It counts out distance travelled and car spacing distance. I was observing the display which shows current speed limit zone, Current speed ( car), and time till penalty application for overspeed. I do not beleive that it is set up on the PCC to provide the Penalty application though
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