Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

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Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby nomis » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:13 pm

Hypothetical T map solves all of your public transit problems
By Joseph Dussault / Boston.com Staff / April 7, 2014
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/04/07/hypothetical-map-solves-all-your-public-transit-problems/8Q00XlVuZNcTfpWIfLABcM/story.html
A hypothetical MBTA map, designed by Reddit user hipster_garbage, seeks to improve the current map. It features line extensions that would make it possible to go directly to West Medford, Chelsea, and Dudley Square – no pesky commuter rail required. It also adds two new branches of the Green Line in an attempt to make it more efficient, despite drawing skepticism from those who believe the line is already a tangled mess.

But the real crown-jewel of the map is a brand new “Yellow Line,” which loops around the city to connect every major line. Currently, a commuter going from Roxbury to Cambridge has to ride the Orange Line all the way into the city, only to transfer to the Red Line outbound again. With the Yellow Line, you could get on at Ruggles and go directly to Harvard, cutting commute times dramatically. Yeah, we’re salivating too.

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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby FP10 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:43 pm

My rebuttal:

Full Resolution

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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby harshaw » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:41 pm

Maybe if Boston were covered in Arcologies with a population of 15 million.

After getting off my lovely commuter rail ride on some rickety old flat car (the one's with the two tone 3 passenger bench where the back near the aisle seat is lower), I would say we are more stuck in the 70's.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby deathtopumpkins » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:20 pm

FP10 wrote:My rebuttal:

Full Resolution


Holy hell! Bravo, good sir, that is a fantastic map, and while being way too ambitious for the T, that would be fantastically amazing to have.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby jrc520 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:36 pm

I posted this over on Reddit as well, and I'll put it here too - I've been working on this for a while now off and on - I call it, "Money is no object".

http://www.cutietta.com/whatifmaps/MBTACommuterWhatIf.png
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby tvachon » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm

jrc520 wrote:I posted this over on Reddit as well, and I'll put it here too - I've been working on this for a while now off and on - I call it, "Money is no object".

http://www.cutietta.com/whatifmaps/MBTACommuterWhatIf.png


But if money is no object can't we please get the north south rail link too?!

Oh and since we are here, I'll take a point to point transporter if it's only an extra zone more ;)

But serious, not bad all, maybe the Olympic committee sees this and then realizes how much it would cost to make the T work at the volumes they will need.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:14 pm

Has there really been any discussion on the Green Line to Needham?
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby jrc520 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:22 pm

Hey tvachon - I've been thinking about the North-South rail-link. Part of what's really hard about it is the approaches - as discussed here before, they would be rather steep. This map is a work in progress, and I'm always trying to improve it. Eventually, you know, when I learn how to do it better, I'll redraw it so it is better formatted. Also, I haven't really given proper thought to many of the junctions - they are subject to change.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby Rbts Stn » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:30 am

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:Has there really been any discussion on the Green Line to Needham?


Quite a bit, and it makes much more sense than many of the proposals out there. There's still a ROW behind Avalon and McDonalds, etc, all the way to the existing track near Jiffy Lube, then across 128 where it becomes the existing Commuter Rail
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby tvachon » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:06 pm

jrc520 wrote:Hey tvachon - I've been thinking about the North-South rail-link. Part of what's really hard about it is the approaches - as discussed here before, they would be rather steep. This map is a work in progress, and I'm always trying to improve it. Eventually, you know, when I learn how to do it better, I'll redraw it so it is better formatted. Also, I haven't really given proper thought to many of the junctions - they are subject to change.


I think the NS link actually suffered from a dual personality view. It can either serve passengers or freight, not both. Acela will never be able to deal with the tunnel, they are better diverting one or two runs at 128 and going on a undersea adventure and landing in east boston and going onward to Maine.

Freight could never handle the slopes and it would essentially force the line to be on the surface (or maybe in a crazy idea a cut and cover down congress just below grade ala Grand Centrals approach in NYC). However I think the Grand Junction is better suited to handle this, and trucks are far more easily moved inside the limits beyond that.

Ideally I think the NS link could easily be done by a sort of electric (or even maglev) DMU style set. Train goes north to south, south to north. One track, one train with a cold spare in a siding at a terminus. Passengers at airports don't bitch if they have to jump on a train similar to these to jump terminal to terminal, make it convenient enough (transfers done in the same level as arrivals) and people would use it heavily.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby deathtopumpkins » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:02 pm

tvachon wrote:Ideally I think the NS link could easily be done by a sort of electric (or even maglev) DMU style set. Train goes north to south, south to north. One track, one train with a cold spare in a siding at a terminus. Passengers at airports don't bitch if they have to jump on a train similar to these to jump terminal to terminal, make it convenient enough (transfers done in the same level as arrivals) and people would use it heavily.


At the risk of going off topic though, what would be the real advantage of that over the current orange line hop BBY-BON? The only difference I see is that the current setup requires two sets of stairs at both Back Bay (up - down) and North Station (up - up).
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby Rbts Stn » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:55 am

deathtopumpkins wrote:
tvachon wrote:Ideally I think the NS link could easily be done by a sort of electric (or even maglev) DMU style set. Train goes north to south, south to north. One track, one train with a cold spare in a siding at a terminus. Passengers at airports don't bitch if they have to jump on a train similar to these to jump terminal to terminal, make it convenient enough (transfers done in the same level as arrivals) and people would use it heavily.


At the risk of going off topic though, what would be the real advantage of that over the current orange line hop BBY-BON? The only difference I see is that the current setup requires two sets of stairs at both Back Bay (up - down) and North Station (up - up).


The Orange Line hop doesn't work for anyone taking the CR from the routes that don't go through Back Bay, which is most of them.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby djlong » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:57 am

Other benefits? Through service. Like in Philadelphia or Paris. Trains don't sit idling in stations - they continue on through the CBD.

North side commuters get easier access to the Financial District, South side commuters get better access to the Garden, etc. This takes some pressure off the central portions of the subway.

I don't know what the cost differential is between the NSRL and expanding South Station but South Station really is a *terminal*, as is North Station. I don't know how much in expansion dollars could be saved to HELP offset the cost of the NSRL - after all you're going to have to tunnel under the Charles River as well as downtown Boston (though the Big Dig slurry walls were dug deep enough to be the walls of the NSRL).
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby deathtopumpkins » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:06 am

Rbts Stn wrote:
deathtopumpkins wrote:
tvachon wrote:Ideally I think the NS link could easily be done by a sort of electric (or even maglev) DMU style set. Train goes north to south, south to north. One track, one train with a cold spare in a siding at a terminus. Passengers at airports don't bitch if they have to jump on a train similar to these to jump terminal to terminal, make it convenient enough (transfers done in the same level as arrivals) and people would use it heavily.


At the risk of going off topic though, what would be the real advantage of that over the current orange line hop BBY-BON? The only difference I see is that the current setup requires two sets of stairs at both Back Bay (up - down) and North Station (up - up).


The Orange Line hop doesn't work for anyone taking the CR from the routes that don't go through Back Bay, which is most of them.


According to MBTA ridership statistics, approximately 66,000 daily riders use the lines that do go through Back Bay (Worcester, Needham, Franklin, Providence, Stoughton), while approximately 26,000 use the lines that don't (Old Colony, Fairmount).

Yes, the orange line hop doesn't work for commuter rail passengers from the Old Colony or Fairmount lines, but they account for less than half (40%) of the CR riders through South Station, so I don't see it as unreasonable to expect them to either walk the quarter of a mile to DTX and pick up the orange line there or take the red line one stop. That's what I've always done when connecting between NS and SS trains.

I just don't think there are enough people who come from the Old Colony and Fairmount lines and want to go to North Station to justify the construction of a whole new transit line to directly connect them, when the trip is already possible in under 15 minutes with only 1 transfer.
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Re: Hypothetical T map (from Reddit)

Postby TrainManTy » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:37 am

deathtopumpkins wrote:
According to MBTA ridership statistics, approximately 66,000 daily riders use the lines that do go through Back Bay (Worcester, Needham, Franklin, Providence, Stoughton), while approximately 26,000 use the lines that don't (Old Colony, Fairmount).

[...]

I just don't think there are enough people who come from the Old Colony and Fairmount lines and want to go to North Station to justify the construction of a whole new transit line to directly connect them, when the trip is already possible in under 15 minutes with only 1 transfer.


Agreed. Plus Amtrak trains run through Back Bay, and I'd guess that their passengers make up a good percentage of cross-city transfers.
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