Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

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Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:52 am

A few moment ago a trolley derailed. Details are still forming, but it appears it was a Riverside Line train, somewhere at the C and D junction or between there and Fenway Station. The trolley went into the wall and three passengers are being transported to hospitals. There are shuttles between Kenmore - St Mary's and Kenmore - Fenway.

EDIT: reports that Joe Pesaturo said there are four injured passengers. The first car of an outbound D train derailed into the wall at the junction, the second car is being backed down into Kenmore with two passengers that have minor injuries. One of the injured is the operator of the derailed trolley.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby djimpact1 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:17 pm

Aw RATS, involved is Type 7 # 3602...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkK11-chUBg
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:39 pm

Here's a photo of 3602 into the wall: http://twitpic.com/dxxip7

And a better one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiYhvycCcAAhacj.jpg:large
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby jrc520 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:20 pm

Preliminary guess - picked switch points, assuming I'm orienting myself correctly here. At least the injuries are not horrid, and no one died. As someone on reddit pointed out, this has been in the budget for replacement for two years now.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby StefanW » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:01 pm

jrc520 wrote:Preliminary guess - picked switch points, assuming I'm orienting myself correctly here. At least the injuries are not horrid, and no one died. As someone on reddit pointed out, this has been in the budget for replacement for two years now.


I googled a bit for details on what factors can go into picked switch points, but it's not clear to me how or if speed is a factor.

Personally I've been appalled lately at the flagrant speed limit violations I see just between Park and Lechmere. It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby bostontrainguy » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:22 pm

StefanW wrote:
jrc520 wrote:Preliminary guess - picked switch points, assuming I'm orienting myself correctly here. At least the injuries are not horrid, and no one died. As someone on reddit pointed out, this has been in the budget for replacement for two years now.


I googled a bit for details on what factors can go into picked switch points, but it's not clear to me how or if speed is a factor.

Personally I've been appalled lately at the flagrant speed limit violations I see just between Park and Lechmere. It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?


Yes, there are "black boxes" on the type 8s which will tell all.

In all honesty, if all of the operators obeyed all of those posted (and unposted) speed limits, the system would slow to a crawl and they would probably run out of vehicles to start every run.

Think about when there is a labor dispute and the operators do a "slow down". They can seriously mess up a transit system by simply obeying all of the rules.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby Patrick Boylan » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:32 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:
StefanW wrote:
jrc520 wrote:Preliminary guess - picked switch points, assuming I'm orienting myself correctly here. At least the injuries are not horrid, and no one died. As someone on reddit pointed out, this has been in the budget for replacement for two years now.


I googled a bit for details on what factors can go into picked switch points, but it's not clear to me how or if speed is a factor.

Personally I've been appalled lately at the flagrant speed limit violations I see just between Park and Lechmere. It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?


Yes, there are "black boxes" on the type 8s which will tell all.

In all honesty, if all of the operators obeyed all of those posted (and unposted) speed limits, the system would slow to a crawl and they would probably run out of vehicles to start every run.

Think about when there is a labor dispute and the operators do a "slow down". They can seriously mess up a transit system by simply obeying all of the rules.

Was speed a factor?
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby TrainManTy » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:16 pm

Before we go any further into allegations and speculation, keep in mind that we, the railfans, the traveling public, don't know any hard facts about how this happened. Picked switch points can also be caused by a variety of track defects including loose points, worn rail, improper gauge...a whole host of things.

Let's not be so quick to speculate as to the cause. Speeding is a pretty serious accusation to make, especially with so little information.

EDIT 3/10, 7:45pm: For that matter, we don't even know that it was picked switch points.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby BostonUrbEx » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:11 am

TrainManTy wrote:Before we go any further into allegations and speculation, keep in mind that we, the railfans, the traveling public, don't know any hard facts about how this happened. Picked switch points can also be caused by a variety of track defects including loose points, worn rail, improper gauge...a whole host of things.

Let's not be so quick to speculate as to the cause. Speeding is a pretty serious accusation to make, especially with so little information.

EDIT 3/10, 7:45pm: For that matter, we don't even know that it was picked switch points.


^ 100% this.

All I can say is, in overhearing other employees who know the operator, they were commenting on how slow and cautious he is. One of them said it wouldn't be like him to speed through, but maybe he did this one time. And that's that. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We won't know for a while.


Anyone else expecting the MBTA to accelerate it's Mattappan Line signal project for implementation on the Green Line? I'm sure that depending on the determined causation, they surely will.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:50 am

"Speed was contributing factor in train derailment, MBTA says
Trolley operator off job after incident near Kenmore"

http://www.wcvb.com/news/green-line-service-restored-after-train-derailment/24912830#ixzz2verLvKmy
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:24 am

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:"Speed was contributing factor in train derailment, MBTA says
Trolley operator off job after incident near Kenmore"

http://www.wcvb.com/news/green-line-service-restored-after-train-derailment/24912830#ixzz2verLvKmy


Let's face it, if your system has posted speed limits of 3 and 6 MPH you can always fall back on blaming the operator for speeding if something ever happens regardless of actual factors like poor track conditions.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby CRail » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:46 am

StefanW wrote:It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?

For those who don't understand why employees give railfans a hard time, here's exhibit A. Nobody should be wishing hardship on anyone, especially when they aren't knowledgeable about the situation they're discussing.
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:30 am

CRail wrote:
StefanW wrote:It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?

For those who don't understand why employees give railfans a hard time, here's exhibit A. Nobody should be wishing hardship on anyone, especially when they aren't knowledgeable about the situation they're discussing.


Bingo! just watch and enjoy the view, keep quiet
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby Patrick Boylan » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:07 am

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:
CRail wrote:
StefanW wrote:It seems like every time I'm up front and can see the speedometer, we're going above 20 MPH through the switches which have limits of 6MPH or 8MPH. Just last week we were going 30 through the 8MPH switch just before North Station westbound.

I hope there's an event recorder so the operator can get nailed (if found at fault of course). Are there any kind of "black boxes" on MBTA lines?

For those who don't understand why employees give railfans a hard time, here's exhibit A. Nobody should be wishing hardship on anyone, especially when they aren't knowledgeable about the situation they're discussing.


Bingo! just watch and enjoy the view, keep quiet

Bingo
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Re: Green Line Derailment 3/10/14

Postby TrainManTy » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:37 pm

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:"Speed was contributing factor in train derailment, MBTA says
Trolley operator off job after incident near Kenmore"

http://www.wcvb.com/news/green-line-service-restored-after-train-derailment/24912830#ixzz2verLvKmy


I can't speak to the quote about speed being a contributing factor, but for those that are tempted to read into the operator being placed on paid leave, remember this is standard practice while awaiting an incident investigation, even if everything points to the operator being 100% NOT at fault.
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