Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby wicked » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:22 pm

I took the train to a Revs game years ago (they ran trains the first couple years the Revs played) and the run from Walpole to Foxborough was interminably long even then.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby highgreen215 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:22 am

The test train probably confirmed all the negatives noted here, so that should be the end of it.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby wicked » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:57 pm

You would think, but why even go through the effort of a test train if you're not serious about running service? Manpower, resources wasted, unless it would also serve as a qualifying/training run.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:31 am

wicked wrote:You would think, but why even go through the effort of a test train if you're not serious about running service? Manpower, resources wasted, unless it would also serve as a qualifying/training run.


as highgreen stated, there are far too many negatives here for it to work, hence a test run, and it biffed. The track is 10 mph CP21-MANSFIELD, long ride. Also, it's going to be a cluster in Foxboro when you have 4 train sets unloading drunk passengers. Can't forget the Boston section train: 1) always a double draft, room is tight for people to unload and walk the narrow ROW, 2) gotta get their EC-1 cancelled, issue one to the Woostah section because can't have 2 trains in the same block on this section of railroad, IIRC, until the Boston train is stopped and secured at Foxboro, then a new EC-1 can be given...and how bout the return trip? gotta wait for the Worcester train to clear Walpole before the Boston section can move, again IIRC CSX cond. can help clarify that part
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:03 pm

For tonight's game, Giants vs. Patriots. Train A out of Boston has the 011-5-1711 and Train B out of Pawtucket Facility, DH to T.F. Green, has 1128-5-1501
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby wicked » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:21 am

Today in the Globe, there's talk of Foxborough hosting a Super Bowl given the success of East Rutherford this week.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/ ... story.html

There's no way this happens without major upgrades to the Framingham Secondary between Walpole and Mansfield. Is the ROW big enough for a second track? They would have to treat this like a New Jersey Super Bowl -- restrict game-day parking, run a plethora of trains. I would see this as a mega disaster in the making, especially with only one road in and out of there, but it would be an impetus for upgrading that stretch and bringing commuter rail to Foxborough.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby Komarovsky » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:14 am

Given that NJT had better infrastructure in place and it was still a fiasco because of the sheer number of people. Check out the NJT forum if you want the gritty details. I agree that rail would be an important component to a Superbowl at Foxboro, but hopefully they'd do a better job of encouraging all modes of transportation, and not trying to cram everyone onto a train.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby nomis » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:39 am

Link to NJT thread ... The details of the day-of & aftermath start on page 9.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby Rbts Stn » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:16 am

It's at least 5 years away from a SB in Foxboro, so if they decide to do some upgrading, they have time to do some upgrading, if they put their minds (and money) towards the project
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby charding » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:13 am

…back in the day, this line was double-tracked - as I remember - haven't seen it in a couple of years - there is room for a second track.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:49 pm

Rbts Stn wrote:It's at least 5 years away from a SB in Foxboro, so if they decide to do some upgrading, they have time to do some upgrading, if they put their minds (and money) towards the project


http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/About ... 20ONLY.pdf

$84M for the max build. That's really not hard to come up with.

Only things required for that max build:
-- Double tracking from Norwood Jct. to the foot of Windsor Gardens station (but not through the station).
-- Crossovers at Franklin layover so thru trains can use it as a passing siding during peak hours when that yard track is empty.
-- Wye platform at Walpole (I would imagine this has to be a mini-high because of the curvature).
-- Cab signaling entire length of Walpole-Mansfield on the Framingham Sec. Reason for doing it all being that the fiber plant is best tied in from the NEC side.
-- 60 MPH speeds from Walpole to Foxboro; 40 MPH speeds from Mansfield to Foxboro. Track upgrades would settle up IOU to CSX for 286K weight limit on this segment of the Sec., as committed in the big line sale agreement. And offer side benefit of faster Providence-Foxboro game trains and viable NEC diversion during service outages. No passing sidings required.
-- Layover yard @ Foxboro near the freight customer just west of the station.
-- Freight passing track at Foxboro platform for wide freights to clear the to-be full-high station platform.
-- Associated grade crossing improvements on the Sec. (very few are gated today).

Says nothing about cab signaling the Franklin main while they're at it, but that's outside the scope of this specific project. Would of course be the logical thing to do instead of trying to force-fit the cabless version of ACSES PTC anywhere on the southside like they have to north.


And that's it. $84M, plus I assume whatever CSX's sale price would be for the lower Framingham Sec. Would get equal the number of trains as Franklin, and get thru-routed over the Fairmount Line. Probably vastly more ridership comes from doubling up Walpole, Norwood, Dedham Corporate to 64 trains per day since those can generate some good all-day demand, so high payoff for the very meager cost. I'm kind of shocked this got no mention whatsoever in Gov. Patrick's transit plans because like Buzzards Bay it's such very low-hanging fruit with multiple stakeholders and high ROI (again, mostly because of the service increases on the inner mainline). But maybe they're just tiptoeing around Foxboro until the state casino licenses are all given out, since Foxboro is touchy enough about that they probably don't want to misinterpret any welcome gestures like this as a trojan horse for reviving the local casino plan the voters soundly defeated. I at least hope that's the only reason for the silence and that this one gets trotted out in some sort of "other" project category. It's certainly a more worthy cause than the Gov.'s Berkshire Rail folly.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:45 am

Does Foxboro commuter rail service include a new stop at downtown Foxboro, or just the existing stadium stop?
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby The EGE » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:56 pm

Just the stadium for starters, but Foxboro town would probably be a cheap and easy tack-on. Railroad Avenue has no abutters on the east side of the street, so there's plenty of room even for a full-high and passing track. Two grade crossings along the way, neither problematic.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:40 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:Does Foxboro commuter rail service include a new stop at downtown Foxboro, or just the existing stadium stop?


Just the existing stop @ Gillette redone as an 800 ft. full-high with freight passing track. The study only stuck to the transportation side of it so things like station amenities, tie-ins to Patiot Place, the parking arrangements with the Pats, etc. are outside the scope of the trackside infrastructure. That's where the price tag could bloat >$84M.

No other stops planned on the Framingham Sec. Going further to downtown has problems of lots more grade crossings (unless trains stop cold at Mechanic St. and never cross Mechanic and Cocasset). There's only 1 very minor one in Walpole before the stadium, but the ones right by town center could rankle the locals @ 32 trains per day. Also issues with layover siting going that far down, and only place to do an 800 ft. full-high is if it sticks to north of that Mechanic St. crossing. Stadium's got plenty of adjacent space for the layover, and a quick enough trip from Walpole Jct. that Class 3 track + cab signals + freight track at the full-high are the only things they have to do to the Framingham Sec to get it full daily passenger grade from Walpole and full state of repair + reasonably fast for Providence extras from Mansfield.

Price tag rises a lot with more dubious bang-for-buck if they do anything more, and I'm not sure if downtown would bring the ridership with the street grid feeding both the Stadium stop and Mansfield on the NEC easily enough and an existing GATRA bus running to Mansfield that could be expanded. The biggest ridership gains, remember, are on the mainline @ Dedham Corporate, the Norwoods, and Walpole from the doubled frequencies. Those are stops that have good all-day walkup potential for an expanded off-peak schedule in addition to shoving some of the highest southside boardings on the rush hour trains. Plus there's a number of MPO studies looking at enhanced commuter bus service on the Route 27 and 109 corridors to feed more Millis, Medfield, Medway commuters into the Walpole and Norfolk CR stops. So the Foxboro extension's purpose is mainly an exploit for tapping unused mainline capacity on-the-cheap for big ridership gains, then putting a massive park-and-ride and TOD cherry on top @ F'boro at the existing Gillette lots. That stop serves a major need on 95/495/1 and frees up a lot of capacity and road traffic at Walpole coming from the south to better serve riders closer to town and to the north. Anything more than that starts getting a little beyond-scope and dilute the focus of this project.

Foxboro's also a bit of an infamously uptight bedroom community that likes to keep downtown sheltered from Route 1 and the highway-grade portion of MA 140 going into Mansfield. They've got a bit of a split personality in really pushing for more tax revenue on 1 (except for the casino) while being NIMBY's about everything else. So while they're full-on behind full-time commuter rail and very much copying the Cape's playbook at trying to woo it gradually and at low cost, they're not so keen on the traffic and development bleeding into downtown. The Stadium stop probably helps more than hurts the traffic; the Route 140 exit off 95 is closer, more direct, and higher-capacity to Mansfield instead of Gillette so they won't get a massive spike of traffic crossing downtown. It'll stick to 495, Route 1 all-directions, 140 from the west and Wrentham, and East Walpole to exactly where the town wants the traffic feeding its tax base. As long as the segregation of sprawl vs. small town stays disciplined like that they're happy as hell to welcome this extension. So long as it isn't a backdoor to bringing the casino back from the dead.
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Re: Take the train to the Game! (Pat's Train)

Postby Rbts Stn » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:02 pm

Have folks found that the "leaves the stadium 30 minutes after the game" process gets everyone who wants a ride on to the train on time? There's a guy who is wrong on the internet recommending folks leave the game 2-4 minutes before the game ends to make sure they get a seat on the train back to Boston.
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