Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Transit

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby sery2831 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:21 pm

People are being moved around and a few are retiring. They will either become Inspectors or CSAs for the most part.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Robert Paniagua » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:50 pm

And just wait, jusrt wait for the REAL big test on Monday, which will be the very first weekday (business day) that not one single Red Line train will employ a guard. Let's just see how delayed the Red Line wil be on the first day even the first week of service without guards. Im sure most persons will now intentionally prevent the doors down in the back of the train (DTX for example) and force the motorperson all the way from 400 ft down to yell at them (unless they use the PA). Im ready for the change, Im a daily Red Line user
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Head-end View » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Well Rob, I'm not in favor of OPTO on systems with longer trains such as more than 5 cars. But it does seem to work okay in San Fran's BART and Wash. D.C. Metro. Though Wash. D.C.'s trains are getting longer and they both have rush-hour crowds that approach NYC's density, so I'm wondering if maybe they actually should add a second crew member. Probably never happen though.

But getting back to the Red-LIne, ya' gotta expect some snags the first few weeks of any new procedure, but I'll bet things smooth out when the train op's and the public get used to it. I just hope nobody's losing their job 'cause of this, in this bad economy. BTW, how ya' doin' catching those odd-numbered cars that we can still see out of?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Robert Paniagua » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:07 pm

But getting back to the Red-LIne, ya' gotta expect some snags the first few weeks of any new procedure, but I'll bet things smooth out when the train op's and the public get used to it. I just hope nobody's losing their job 'cause of this, in this bad economy. BTW, how ya' doin' catching those odd-numbered cars that we can still see out of?

Yeah, thats very truie, and by a month from now, things should smooth out, you're right. And You're very correct about Washington Metro's trains are 180' longer than MBTA's Red Line, so having the driver to do everything shouldnt be an issue. And no, as mentioned, no attendants are out of work, but if they become extra Red Line motorpersons, they hours could be reduced, but some others are CSA's Bus drivers, etc. And yeah Im still doing good seeing out the ends of Red Line #3 Cars now it'll be interesting as the next time I get that seat how I'll get to see the operator do everything akin to Washington Metro.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Head-end View wrote:Are the affected personnel being laid off or hopefully reassigned to other jobs within the MBTA?


Laid off for no reason? With the unions the MBTA would be up against? YEAH RIGHT!

They're being reassigned as motormen, CSAs, and inspectors.

But this limits the amount of new hires necessary. So they'll be trimming down in the long-run.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:52 am

When the orange line went OPTO, service increased because more staff was available. So off-peak headways went down.

Will that be happening here?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby StevieC48 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:40 pm

The only persons you would have to worry about is small kids,blind persons and the stupid person who leans on the door. If the wrong side was open in the station or door opened inadvertently outside the station.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby diburning » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:49 pm

I don't see how OPTO would increase the risk of that. With OPTO, the operator opens the doors. Without OPTO, the guard opens the doors. Still one person opening the doors so I don't see why OPTO would make such a difference.

What will make a difference though, is that station dwell times may be a bit longer as the operator would have a harder time closing the doors especially during peak periods when there is a steady stream of people entering the platform area rushing to the train. With a guard, the doors on 2 or 4 cars can be closed, and then the doors on the other 2 or 4 cars can be closed at the first opportunity and the train will be on its way, leaving behind the stragglers for the next train.

With OPTO, the operator would have to recycle the doors every time ONE person tries to beat the doors on ANY door on the train. When the doors recycle (the doors all open again before they can be shut to prevent shutting the doors on someone) it gives another opportunity for someone to try to hop on board, making it a never-ending cat and mouse game.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby boblothrope » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:And just wait, jusrt wait for the REAL big test on Monday, which will be the very first weekday (business day) that not one single Red Line train will employ a guard.


So far things have moved pretty well.

At every station I've passed through, there have been one or two platform conductors who give a flashlight signal to the train operator see when the doors are clear. I assume this is temporary -- how would four employees per station be cheaper than two per train?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby mitch3910 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:35 pm

boblothrope wrote:At every station I've passed through, there have been one or two platform conductors who give a flashlight signal to the train operator see when the doors are clear. I assume this is temporary -- how would four employees per station be cheaper than two per train?


This is common along certain stops on the orange line as well. There are two people signaling the operator at Wellington inbound in the morning, and another one or two at DTX. I haven't seen them in the evening.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby danib62 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:47 pm

Took my normal red line commute today from central to charles/mgh around 7:30 am and it took the usual amount of time. No indication that anything was really different.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby CRail » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:02 am

diburning wrote:When the doors recycle (the doors all open again before they can be shut to prevent shutting the doors on someone) it gives another opportunity for someone to try to hop on board, making it a never-ending cat and mouse game.

When a door "recycles," only the recycling leaf reopens. As it actually happens, the door attendant (or motorman serving as such) opens the doors whenever someone gets in the way because the rules prohibit hitting people with the doors, creating the problem described. I point this out not to nitpick, but to convey that it doesn't need to be this way. People should be allowed to get hit with doors if they try to beat or hold them. When the chime goes off, it means to stand clear of the doors, not to hurry up in a last ditch effort to get in their way before they close. It should be that if you do the latter, you will get hit despite the safety measures in place to prevent such which you ignored.

Even when this happens, the doors won't lock shut on you, they will pop back open. If that system (recycling) is to fail, it's not harmful (I've had doors close on me and not reopen. The closing was deliberate, mind you, and the train was not in service). The train will also still not be able to move because without the door being fully closed and latched the operator will not receive door indication (and should not try to move the train), and an interlock has the propulsion system disabled preventing operator error.

Relating this back to OPTO, it is unarguably so that having to close all 18 or 24 doors (depending on car type) simultaneously is a disadvantage, especially when operators are forced to allow passengers to treat the train like an elevator.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby diburning » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:46 am

I didn't take that as nitpicking. I purposefully didn't say one or the other because I wasn't sure whether it was the operator opening all the doors and closing them again or if the recycling mechanism in one door reopens all the other ones (I didn't think so, but in the past year or two, I haven't seen a single door recycle as in the past, only the entire row of doors opening and closing).

It's worse when passengers try to get in even though the elevator is at max capacity.... if you know what I mean.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby TrainManTy » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:35 pm

diburning wrote: in the past year or two, I haven't seen a single door recycle as in the past, only the entire row of doors opening and closing).


This week I've noticed that allowing the doors to close on people seems to be relatively common. It's just not feasible to get the entire train to close simultaneously during rush hour, especially with backpack-wearers trying to cram onto an already-full train.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Arlington » Fri May 11, 2012 9:59 pm

Any new OPTO thoughts? ...Meanwhile Paris' Line 1 (the oldest in their system) is now ZPTO / NPTO? 24hrs a day, the key being platform doors that do make every door like an elevator door (one on the vehicle for each one on the platform, and neither opening unless both do). (article in french...http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/paris ... 995243.php)
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