Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Right now the draw bridge is being operated with one track. Plans are being worked on for an operation plan. Expect delays on the Rockport Line.
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations
User avatar
sery2831
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby MBTA1016 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:44 pm

Ouch is the saugus draw on this line? If it is this really hurts.
Josh.W
Formally mbta fan
WE ARE BOSTON, WE ARE BOSTON STRONG


Flicker: http://www.flickr.com/photos/116905626@N06/
Blog: http://jpwilkinson2448.blogspot.com/?m=1
User avatar
MBTA1016
 
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Walpole MA

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby NH2060 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:42 pm

Mbta fan wrote:Ouch is the saugus draw on this line? If it is this really hurts.


Yup. In fact it's the only line with multiple drawbridges (aside from the other lines running into North Station that cross over the Charles River draws).
NH2060
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:44 pm

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby tom18287 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:53 am

if i'm correct, all of them are very similar in construction along the line.
tom18287
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:11 pm

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby MBTA1016 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:09 am

Ok thanks nh, thats really bad for the north side. I thought the southside had it bad with csx and the Worcester line.
Josh.W
Formally mbta fan
WE ARE BOSTON, WE ARE BOSTON STRONG


Flicker: http://www.flickr.com/photos/116905626@N06/
Blog: http://jpwilkinson2448.blogspot.com/?m=1
User avatar
MBTA1016
 
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Walpole MA

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby jbvb » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:27 am

The Saugus River (West Lynn), Manchester and Annisquam River (Gloucester) draws are all bascules; Beverly is a swing bridge. The Annisquam draw is a significantly different design than Saugus or Manchester. I have never looked at the Manchester draw close up, so I can't say if it's actually the same type as Saugus. All date to ~100 years ago, when the line was rebuilt for K-8 2-8-0s and P-2 4-6-2s.
jbvb
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: Rockingham Co., NH

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:51 pm

Are any of those Eastern Route movable bridges in tolerable condition? That's an awful long-term repair bill and years of constant failure flare-ups of this sort that they're looking at if all 4 of them need major rehab or replacement in the next 10 years.


Beverly, if they went for a full span replacement, could be made a fixed bridge if it were raised a few feet to the level of the brand new Essex Bridge right next to it carrying 1A. I don't know if that's in the cards at all for the programmed rehab/replacement of the span later this decade. Saugus would take a pretty major raising equivalent to the pipeline next to it to become non-movable, because both the 1A and Route 107 bridges on either side are draws. But I think they were planning just that had the Blue Line needed to share it. Manchester's pretty tight confines and close to the station, but only small pleasure boats use the harbor. Gloucester's a really narrow pleasure boat strait and very small bridge, but a very heavily used waterway.

I don't know...path of least resistance is rehab, especially on the two Rockport Branch bridges. But can't help but think that 4 is just too many for how problem-prone moveables are. Someday it's going to be prudent to bite the bullet and rebuild at least one if not two of these as a fixed span. We've been dealing with these troublesome failure rates for 30 years.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7244
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby NH2060 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:48 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Are any of those Eastern Route movable bridges in tolerable condition? That's an awful long-term repair bill and years of constant failure flare-ups of this sort that they're looking at if all 4 of them need major rehab or replacement in the next 10 years.


"Tolerable" is sounding more and more of a stretch every day.

Beverly, if they went for a full span replacement, could be made a fixed bridge if it were raised a few feet to the level of the brand new Essex Bridge right next to it carrying 1A.


That'll never happen. Raising the bridge to that height would require prohibitively steep approaches. The 1A bridge itself is too high even for highway traffic IMO. That being said, any new bridge the T decides to build should be a bit higher than the existing one, but still have a moveable span.

Saugus would take a pretty major raising equivalent to the pipeline next to it to become non-movable, because both the 1A and Route 107 bridges on either side are draws. But I think they were planning just that had the Blue Line needed to share it.


Raising Saugus shouldn't be too difficult considering that there's ample room for approach spans/fill on either side and the portion of the line through West Lynn and on towards the station is mostly above street level as it is. If not, a new drawbridge like the one being built in Niantic, CT on the Northeast Corridor would be just as much an improvement.

But can't help but think that 4 is just too many for how problem-prone moveables are. Someday it's going to be prudent to bite the bullet and rebuild at least one if not two of these as a fixed span. We've been dealing with these troublesome failure rates for 30 years.


4 is simply unacceptable. If anything the T should be applying for a federal grant to cover the cost if they can't pay for it themselves.
NH2060
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:44 pm

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby MBTA1016 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:06 am

Is there any updates on what's going on with draw?
Josh.W
Formally mbta fan
WE ARE BOSTON, WE ARE BOSTON STRONG


Flicker: http://www.flickr.com/photos/116905626@N06/
Blog: http://jpwilkinson2448.blogspot.com/?m=1
User avatar
MBTA1016
 
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Walpole MA

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby BandM4266 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:16 pm

The latest news in today's issue of the Gloucester Daily Times

"Despite bridge repair, safety issues still slowing trains
By Stephanie Bergman
Staff Writer The Gloucester Daily Times Fri Jan 13, 2012, 01:12 AM EST
More than a day after a structural defect of the Annisquam River railroad bridge was repaired, forcing a temporary closure of the inbound track over the bridge, trains remain under a speed restriction when crossing, despite claims that the track is safe to cross.
The single track — one of two that crosses the century-old bridge — was initially closed shortly before noon Wednesday, and then was reopened with a speed restriction of 10 mph at 3:30 p.m.
As of press time Thursday, however, trains crossing the bridge were still slowing to a crawl in order to pass."

http://www.gloucestertimes.com/topstori ... ing-trains
BandM4266
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Dracut, Ma

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby railfan1988 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:45 am

jbvb wrote:The Saugus River (West Lynn), Manchester and Annisquam River (Gloucester) draws are all bascules; Beverly is a swing bridge. The Annisquam draw is a significantly different design than Saugus or Manchester. I have never looked at the Manchester draw close up, so I can't say if it's actually the same type as Saugus. All date to ~100 years ago, when the line was rebuilt for K-8 2-8-0s and P-2 4-6-2s.


I don't know if the Manchester Drawbridge is totally different from the Saugus Drawbridge, but I know that it is somewhat different. For one, it is quite a bit shorter than the Saugus Draw. And it only has one signal on each side of it (Saugus Draw has two signals on each side). Also, I believe the speed over the Manchester Draw is only ten miles an hour. Saugus Draw is thirty miles an hour. Not sure what the reason for that it is, but our moderator can probably explain.
railfan1988
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:16 am
Location: MA

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:58 pm

railfan1988 wrote:
jbvb wrote:The Saugus River (West Lynn), Manchester and Annisquam River (Gloucester) draws are all bascules; Beverly is a swing bridge. The Annisquam draw is a significantly different design than Saugus or Manchester. I have never looked at the Manchester draw close up, so I can't say if it's actually the same type as Saugus. All date to ~100 years ago, when the line was rebuilt for K-8 2-8-0s and P-2 4-6-2s.


I don't know if the Manchester Drawbridge is totally different from the Saugus Drawbridge, but I know that it is somewhat different. For one, it is quite a bit shorter than the Saugus Draw. And it only has one signal on each side of it (Saugus Draw has two signals on each side). Also, I believe the speed over the Manchester Draw is only ten miles an hour. Saugus Draw is thirty miles an hour. Not sure what the reason for that it is, but our moderator can probably explain.


Manchester's been in that much worse shape for that much longer than Saugus, which was a recent flare-up. It's also very close to the station so trains are always going to be slower here for that reason alone.

But, definitely, way worse shape for a way longer time. This situation can't go on much longer.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7244
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:20 am

Actually Manchester Draw is saved by the fact the boat yard west of the draw has a crossing that requires train to pass over at 15 mph. So with the station on one side and the boat yard on the other, trains pass over at a very reduced speed.
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations
User avatar
sery2831
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby railfan1988 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:36 am

sery2831 wrote:Actually Manchester Draw is saved by the fact the boat yard west of the draw has a crossing that requires train to pass over at 15 mph. So with the station on one side and the boat yard on the other, trains pass over at a very reduced speed.


John, do you know why Manchester Draw has only one signal at each end of it? Beverly Draw and Saugus Draw both have two signals at each of their ends, so why is Manchester Draw different?
railfan1988
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:16 am
Location: MA

Re: Gloucester Draw Failure Discussion

Postby 130MM » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:46 am

railfan1988 wrote:
sery2831 wrote:Actually Manchester Draw is saved by the fact the boat yard west of the draw has a crossing that requires train to pass over at 15 mph. So with the station on one side and the boat yard on the other, trains pass over at a very reduced speed.


John, do you know why Manchester Draw has only one signal at each end of it? Beverly Draw and Saugus Draw both have two signals at each of their ends, so why is Manchester Draw different?


Manchester Draw has two signals on each end. One of each pair is a dwarf signal because the signal system is Rule 251; i.e. signal for movements in the assigned direction of traffic only. Therefore it doesn't need to be a mast signal.

DAW
130MM
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:57 pm
Location: Wakefield, MA

Next

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher and 7 guests