New York Penn Station (1960's)

Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby andre » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:50 pm

Noel Weaver wrote:
andre wrote:as always noel an informative and knowledgeable input and i thank you

thats interesting that the empire track was an old storage track

also was there a large departure/arrival board like there is now on the main concourse (similar to the one in newark penn)


There was an arrival board in the incoming level one flight down from the main departure level. I don't know if there is still one in the area but in the 70's and 80's there was.
Noel Weaver



not any more on the lower level

the only boards on the lower level under the main concourse are just the small TV screens with the departures and the ones by the track gates...
The only two large boards would be the Large amtrak board on the concourse near the ticket booths and acela waiting area, and on the LIRR Main concourse near their ticket agents that only shows LIRR departures
This is the train to: Pumphouse, Turntable and RPO, Please have all tickets out for collection. Thank you and enjoy the ride

**Also agrees with the statement "Jeff Smith Rules"
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby Jim in S.E. Pa. » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:09 am

I see this thread has gone cold, but since I just happened upon it. I was just discussing this subject yesterday with a friend who rides NJT to Penn every week day from Bristol,Pa... In poking around I found alot of info on the subject. I thought maybe this wiki link might be a little contribution, as it sites many sources and other links to even more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvan ... rk_City%29

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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:01 pm

Jim: Interesting timing-today is the 100th Anniversary of the PRR beginning service thru the Hudson/North River Tunnels into Penn Station from New Jersey.

In my opinion the Penn Station complex and New York area access improvements are perhaps one of the most significant improvements in the history of the PRR...

They are as important as ever now 100 years later to NYC and the three railroads that serve it...thanks to the foresight of the PRR back in the day...

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby FRN9 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:55 pm

Charles Luckman was the architect of the new Penn Station. He was a notoriously bad architect who was the protege of another terrible architect Gordan Bunshaft of SOM. The previous building by Stanford White was considered to be an absolute gem and had inspired many future architects, including my father. What happened to Penn Station is a tragedy we live through every day as new yorkers.
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby Noel Weaver » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:43 am

FRN9 wrote:Charles Luckman was the architect of the new Penn Station. He was a notoriously bad architect who was the protege of another terrible architect Gordan Bunshaft of SOM. The previous building by Stanford White was considered to be an absolute gem and had inspired many future architects, including my father. What happened to Penn Station is a tragedy we live through every day as new yorkers.


He might have been a "terrible architect" in your opinion but the old Penn Station was not all that great, I worked there and I know.
What happened to the old Penn Station could have been prevented if New York had not taxed the property to the point where the railroad simply could not afford to maintain and keep it. Don't blame the railroad for its demise, blame the government of the city and state for their lack of support for money losing commuter operations and high taxes for property that wasn't providing any return to the railroad. That's the reason the station had to go.
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby FRN9 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:54 am

Noel Weaver wrote:
FRN9 wrote:Charles Luckman was the architect of the new Penn Station. He was a notoriously bad architect who was the protege of another terrible architect Gordan Bunshaft of SOM. The previous building by Stanford White was considered to be an absolute gem and had inspired many future architects, including my father. What happened to Penn Station is a tragedy we live through every day as new yorkers.


He might have been a "terrible architect" in your opinion but the old Penn Station was not all that great, I worked there and I know.
What happened to the old Penn Station could have been prevented if New York had not taxed the property to the point where the railroad simply could not afford to maintain and keep it. Don't blame the railroad for its demise, blame the government of the city and state for their lack of support for money losing commuter operations and high taxes for property that wasn't providing any return to the railroad. That's the reason the station had to go.
Noel Weaver


I agree. The government was stupid. But the old building was a lost gem, hence the Farley project.
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby andre » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:18 pm

FRN9 wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:
FRN9 wrote:Charles Luckman was the architect of the new Penn Station. He was a notoriously bad architect who was the protege of another terrible architect Gordan Bunshaft of SOM. The previous building by Stanford White was considered to be an absolute gem and had inspired many future architects, including my father. What happened to Penn Station is a tragedy we live through every day as new yorkers.


He might have been a "terrible architect" in your opinion but the old Penn Station was not all that great, I worked there and I know.
What happened to the old Penn Station could have been prevented if New York had not taxed the property to the point where the railroad simply could not afford to maintain and keep it. Don't blame the railroad for its demise, blame the government of the city and state for their lack of support for money losing commuter operations and high taxes for property that wasn't providing any return to the railroad. That's the reason the station had to go.
Noel Weaver


I agree. The government was stupid. But the old building was a lost gem, hence the Farley project.


the old stations is a lost gem however the current station is very efficient for flow of foot traffic, retail space. is it a perfect layout not really but it serves its purpose very well and proved to be a good design over the past 40 or so years.


But lets try to get back on topic of how the "current" station looked when it was completed
This is the train to: Pumphouse, Turntable and RPO, Please have all tickets out for collection. Thank you and enjoy the ride

**Also agrees with the statement "Jeff Smith Rules"
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Re: The New Penn Station (1960's)

Postby goodnightjohnwayne » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:51 pm

Noel Weaver wrote:
FRN9 wrote:Charles Luckman was the architect of the new Penn Station. He was a notoriously bad architect who was the protege of another terrible architect Gordan Bunshaft of SOM. The previous building by Stanford White was considered to be an absolute gem and had inspired many future architects, including my father. What happened to Penn Station is a tragedy we live through every day as new yorkers.


He might have been a "terrible architect" in your opinion but the old Penn Station was not all that great, I worked there and I know.
What happened to the old Penn Station could have been prevented if New York had not taxed the property to the point where the railroad simply could not afford to maintain and keep it. Don't blame the railroad for its demise, blame the government of the city and state for their lack of support for money losing commuter operations and high taxes for property that wasn't providing any return to the railroad. That's the reason the station had to go.
Noel Weaver


Looking back to 1962, I think that there was less cynicism about passenger rail than most people realize. Amtrak finally moves out of Grand Central in 1991, but the initial planning dates back to the NYC and PRR, nearly 30 years earlier. At the inception of Penn Central, there was a great deal of concern for passenger operations, probably more than the revenues warranted. Of course, that was 1962 and by the time the lengthy approvals were out of the way, passenger volumes had collapsed.

I'm also inclined to say that old Penn Station was fantastically wasteful in terms of real estate, while in contrast, the above ground superstructure of Grand Central was far more compact in footprint. Of course, there are still people who rant and rave about the Pan Am Building, but there again, what was so historic about an old low rise office block?
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Re: New York Penn Station (1960's)

Postby andre » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:46 pm

reviving an older topic from last year, however:

on my weekly trip to danbury, i passed through the nyc transit museum annex inside gct and they have a very informative exhibit on Penn Station from its original building up till the Penn Central years to the Demolition and pictures and artifacts from the old station and pictures and signage when the new station was opened.
This is the train to: Pumphouse, Turntable and RPO, Please have all tickets out for collection. Thank you and enjoy the ride

**Also agrees with the statement "Jeff Smith Rules"
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Re: New York Penn Station (1960's)

Postby Eliphaz » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:59 pm

The late, great Pennsylvania Station
by Lorraine B Diehl
is a nice book on this topic. can be found for small money on Alibris.com
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