Penn Central passenger service question

Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: JJMDiMunno

Penn Central passenger service question

Postby B44NYC » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:49 pm

Hi everyone.
I came across a hobby shop that was having a clearance sale on some Walthers passenger cars (932 series). He was selling some Penn Central Budd & Pullman (silver with the Penn Central letterboard) passenger cars and since I model PRR, NYC, NH, Amtrak transistion years, I wanted to try and put a Penn Central passenger train together.

This is what was available:

Pullman 64 seat Coach (silver)
Pullman 10-6 Sleeper(green)
Budd Grill Diner (silver)
Budd 52 seat Coach (silver)
Budd 29 seat Parlor car (silver)
Budd Observation car (silver)
Budd Dome Coach (silver)
Budd 73' Baggage car (silver)
B60b baggage car (green)

I Googled & Yahoo'd for pictures of a Penn Central passenger train consist to try and put something together but couldn't find anything (at least using the Walthers passenger cars).

I'm using a BLI PC GG1

Question: Anyone have any links to where I might some pictures and are the Walthers cars close to accurate?

I know IHC had PC passenger cars which I'm not sure are prototypical and I'm not sure when Rapido will release their PC Osgood Bradley passenger cars.

Any info appreciated and thanks in advance.
B44NYC
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby 3rdrail » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:18 pm

Hi B44 - We pretty much model the same co - NH. RE: PC, I grew up next to it's Boston - Providence Main Line in Roslindale and watched it out my class window often (when I should have been listening to the professor sometimes) at Northeastern, so it is with some experience that I am pleased to tell you that the PC is a modelers dream ! Reason being is that the PC was not picky as to what they would put with what. Long after warranty expiration, Budd RDC's would be put in a post-war coach train pulled by something from EMD. Often, it might or might not even be painted in PC colors, particularly a couple of years after the merger. As far as their eastern rails were concerned in those pre-electrification days almost anything was possible, although I never have seen a NH or PC dome car nor a PC acquired observation car.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby B44NYC » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:39 pm

3rdrail wrote:Hi B44 - We pretty much model the same co - NH. RE: PC, I grew up next to it's Boston - Providence Main Line in Roslindale and watched it out my class window often (when I should have been listening to the professor sometimes) at Northeastern, so it is with some experience that I am pleased to tell you that the PC is a modelers dream ! Reason being is that the PC was not picky as to what they would put with what. Long after warranty expiration, Budd RDC's would be put in a post-war coach train pulled by something from EMD. Often, it might or might not even be painted in PC colors, particularly a couple of years after the merger. As far as their eastern rails were concerned in those pre-electrification days almost anything was possible, although I never have seen a NH or PC dome car nor a PC acquired observation car.



Hi 3rd Rail,
I grew up in Manhattan and I too remember staring out the school window for hours during the PC years and remember watching the many variations of passenger consists on the Park Ave Viaduct.

I also remember as a kid riding a Penn Central (1971ish?) express out of Penn Sta. down the NEC to Baltimore which had a full stainless passenger car consist. The full length of the train was letterboarded "Penn Central" and it was pulled by a GG1. I was trying to put the same train together in HO but I can't find anything on Penn Central passenger service or its passenger consist on the internet.

Walthers and IHC are the only manufacturers I know of which produced the cars with a stainless (?) finish.
B44NYC
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby 3rdrail » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:37 pm

Have you tried ebay ? I've found that sitting in my den, relaxing as I scan the sections that I'm interested in, has caused me to miss a few of the shows which I wouldn't have missed before. I like their "notification" feature where they will notify you by email if a phrase pops up on a listing. This can be active for a whole year, at which time you may just enter it again for another year or so. I don't think that I would be going out on a limb by saying if it rolled on any of the merged company's rails post-war, that there was a prototype for every combination that you can think of on the PC. An interesting piece that I have given thought to is converting a NH observation car into a mid-train lounge, etc. with the rear door treatment and diaphragm that some of these cars got on the real NH. I do not know if any of them ever made it to the PC era. Also, if you don't mind me saying so, as your latitudes are so wide here, I wouldn't get too caught up in only making up what you find photos of or what you remember. If you can dream it up and it's physically possible (maybe even if it's not), it probably ran on the PC.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Backshophoss » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:20 pm

Passenger car maintance on PC was minamal at best,what ever was avaible rolled,mixed stainless and "painted" side rolling stock
was thrown together to create a consist, in dire need of a run thru the wash rack at times!!
Many had windows replaced with Lexan to combat the rock throwers were scratched to he**!
After Amtrak was created and the "best" cars were turned over,most of the remaining cars were
used in commuter services and allowed to rot/fall a part while rolling with passengers in them!!
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 4520
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby glennk419 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:39 am

Pretty much all of the cars on that list would "fly" with the exception of the dome and observation if you're modelling an electrified train. I'd grab those cars while you can.
Glenn
User avatar
glennk419
 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:44 pm
Location: Southeastern PA & Cape May County, NJ

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby kilroy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:23 pm

For photos try Morning Sun Books. http://www.morningsunbooks.com/penn_cen_con.html

The write up from their site for:

Penn Central Through Passenger Service
Geoffrey H. Doughty
While Penn Central came into being in February 1968, it still operated a substantial long distance passenger service in the several years before Amtrak. Struggling to create a new image when bankruptcy struck, the three year story is illustrated in nearly 250 color photos.

Item  #1427
Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?
User avatar
kilroy
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 am
Location: Central Jersey

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby charlie6017 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:45 pm

kilroy wrote:For photos try Morning Sun Books. http://www.morningsunbooks.com/penn_cen_con.html

The write up from their site for:

Penn Central Through Passenger Service
Geoffrey H. Doughty
While Penn Central came into being in February 1968, it still operated a substantial long distance passenger service in the several years before Amtrak. Struggling to create a new image when bankruptcy struck, the three year story is illustrated in nearly 250 color photos.

Item  #1427


Kilroy, do you or anyone else on here have this book as of yet? I know it was just released, so.....
~Charlie Ricker
User avatar
charlie6017
 
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:42 pm
Location: Rochester, New York

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Noel Weaver » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:55 am

One thing to beware of with Morning Sun Books and that is the captions attached to various photos. I have a good number of them and some of them have a lot of errors in them. These books are a mixed bag, good for memories but somewhat off when it comes to actual facts. Buy at your own risk.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9333
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:34 pm

Noel Weaver wrote: These books are a mixed bag, good for memories but somewhat off when it comes to actual facts. Buy at your own risk.
Noel Weaver

...sort of like the Penn Central.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Jim Kaufman » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:06 pm

I found this site by accident, but it is great for PC questions/answers.
But I do have a bone to pick with some of the writers and thier negative attitude toward PC passenger crews. I worked with plenty of former NYC men, who followed thier seniority into PC passenger service (Amtrak), and 99.9% were very helpfull to a young "brakie" working "Passenger"for the first time. The men I worked with were not rude/disrespectfull to passengers, on the contrary with the equipment we were working with, we felt for the passenger who bought a ticket, and had to sit in a cold/hot coach, non-working restrooms, out of food, etc. At the time I started to work on PC/Amtrak trains, Mr. Perleman's touted "Empire Service" was on its last legs, as PC hadn't any money to invest in the service, and Amtrak was begging for money on bended knee from Congress. But the crews that I knew and worked with did not take anything "out on the passenger(s)" as some of the writers to this site have "alleged", we were in the same boat as the passengers, trying to get them from "point 'A' to point 'B' " in a safe and reasonably reliable schedule with the equipment and track structure we had at the time. The crews I worked with remembered the old NYC days, but carried on with what PC/Amtrak gave them to work with...I'm very thankfull and proud to have worked with these men, and thankfull for the help they gave me that I carried on with me when I had enough seniority to work "Passenger" full time, and I passed thier knowledge to younger railroaders who followed me.
Jim Kaufman
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:45 pm

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby charlie6017 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:05 pm

Welcome to the boards, Mr. Kaufman! I look forward to more of your insight from the "better days"
of railroading!

Charlie
~Charlie Ricker
User avatar
charlie6017
 
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:42 pm
Location: Rochester, New York

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Bigt » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:43 pm

I agree with Mr. Kaufmann. Although my experiences concerned freight service, any shortfalls
that were found with the Penn Central certainly could not be tied to the employees. They were
all old NYC men, who had seen the "good days". But, they were all "railroaders" in the truest sense
of the word. Men doing a difficult job, under difficult conditions, with the highest degree of
professionalism and pride. They were the railroad's greatest asset.
Bigt
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:36 pm

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Noel Weaver » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:51 am

I also agree, Lines East people especially were a fantastic group of railroaders. I worked with my share of them over a long period of years both in passenger and in freight service.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9333
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Penn Central passenger service question

Postby Zeke » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:04 pm

The old timers I worked with were PRR/PC men and as a group top notch. When I hired on there were still a few engineers that had hired out in 1929 and worked on the NEC as firemen before the GG-1's and the catenary went up, as the NEC nee PRR New York Division was all steam. Working with them it was old school masters helping out the new hires learn the right way to railroad. It really was a once in a lifetime look back into the past. Those old timers were my idols and I can still reel off the names of 50 or more engineers, conductors, yardmasters and train dispatchers who were real legends. They would be needled sometimes by the younger crowd and would reply," Hey kid, when I came around here, the cars were made of wood and the men were made of iron."
User avatar
Zeke
 
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:08 am

Next

Return to Penn Central

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest