What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

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What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby AmtrakFan » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:26 pm

What were NYC Trains out of Detroit?

John
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:21 am

What year are we talking about?

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What were the NYC trains out of Detroit

Postby eddiebear » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:59 am

Right after World War II. Doing this from memory.

To Cincinnati - day train and night train. Used various names, Ohio Special/Michigan Special, Ponce de Leon, Queen City. Until about 1955 also a seaonsal train through to Florida, Florida Sunbeam, later New Royal Palm. The Cincinnati service lasted until 1958 or 1959.
To Indianapolis a night express, lasted until about '57 or '58.
To Cleveland - Mercury. Lasted until about 1959. Also, there were a number of trains between Detroit and Toledo to other points that had through cars to Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

Chicago-Detroit Route

Mercury morning run in each direction (lasted until about 1958). Twilight Ltd. same but late afternoon;made it into Amtrak era. Motor City Special, overnight train both directions.

Detroit-Buffalo-NY City

Detroiter-all Pullman - gone about 1958. Empire State Express, lasted until about A-Day.

Chicago-Detroit-Buffalo and beyond.

Wolverine, NY Special (eastbound only), Fast Mail (westbound only)-morphed into the Michigan #335, Detroit-Chicago. NE Wolverine from Boston to Detroit westbound only. #364 Detroit-Buffalo. #358 Canadian/Niagara. #39 North Shore Ltd. NY-Chicago westbound, lasted a long time. Counterpart #40 probably only made it to about 1950.

Some nameless secondary locals and mail trains. Some of above trains in the Detroit-Chicago territory carried through cars from Toronto via CPR.

To Grand Rapids. Through cars on one postwar train Detroit to Jackson, then on local train to Grand Rapids. Thru sleeper from New York. This was an early RDC replacement; Jackson-GR turn.

To Mackinaw City. Day local to Bay City with through sleeper from New York. Another early RDC replacement and extended for a few years to Midland. Overnight Northerner to Mackinaw City. By early 1960s was a day time RDC run. Timberliner Friday only out, Sunday return put on after WWII and ran about 15 years. Until 1950 or so, Detroit and Mackinac through cars handled as far as Bay City.
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Postby NYC_Dave » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:27 pm

Timetables for the 20s through the 60s are available on the Canada Southern website. http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/photo.htm
Dave Miller

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Postby AmtrakFan » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:01 pm

Thanks Eveyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby Bob70deb » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:52 pm

I'm interested in painting a o scale engine based on a color photo of a Mercury Hudson shown in the back of the book "New York Central Steam in color" taken in 1945. Looks like the Empire State Express streamlined bullet nose engine with PT tender but painted almost all glossy black. Any info appreciated. Engine number route colors and cities serviced would be appreciated.
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby Bob70deb » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:10 am

Thanks for all that info. I'm specifically interested in what appears to be a modified Empire State streamlined Hudson with Pt tender in1945. White letters "The Mercury" in the front. The color photo indicates it was painted a glossy black except for what was left of the skirting. I was unaware of these engines painted other than two tone silver/black. I want to paint a O scale engine using this very unique scheme if confirmed. I live in Detroit area.
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Re: Streamlined Black Mercuries

Postby NYC_Dave » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:23 pm

From various sources - the Empire State Express Hudsons, 5426 and 5429, were placed in Chicago Mercury service in 1946, trains 75 and 76 between Chicago and Detroit. Although they had been given PT tenders during the Empire service, these were replaced with standard J-3 12-wheel tenders in black for the Mercuries. They ultimately received an all black paint scheme except for the running board edge, firebox fluting and cylinder heads which remained unpainted stainless steel. For awhile 5429’s stainless boiler jacket and half-nose had remained unpainted. Note that the lower part of the Empire stainless steel skirting was removed. Both engines lost their streamlining in 1949.
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby Bob70deb » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:25 pm

Thanks Dave. My source is a color photo from the book NYC in color. It agrees with you but I think it has a PT tender.
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby NYC_Dave » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:32 pm

The same photo appears as a 1 1/2 page spread in the book "Michigan Central Trackside with Emery Gulash" by Geoffrey Dougherty. You can see the 6-wheel tender trucks much clearer - also the shadows of the journals on the rail. And there are no overflow pipes showing which the PT tenders had.
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby Bob70deb » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:15 pm

We're any of the Empire Express Hudsons used for the Mercury train painted a dark grey like the Dryfuss? Or we're they either the two tone silver/black or all black?
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby NYC_Dave » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:50 am

Have you tried Google searches on various combinations of NYC, New York Central, Mercury, etc.???

Here's one that cropped up: http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Pictures/Photos/026-030/Photo026A.htm

[img]http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/imagesRRHX/Trains/NYCMercuryNo75atCentralAve111639WithJ3a(5445)[AlPatterson-CharlieWhippColl].jpg[/img]
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Re: What were NYC trains out of Detroit?

Postby Bob70deb » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:09 pm

Yes I tried Google. Also posted the question on OGRR forum. Got a couple of neat photos showing silver/black colors. Most information out there is on the Dryfuss. There must have been only a couple repurposed Empire Hudsons used for the Mercury service. Best I got is the all black color photo.
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