19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby BR&P » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Glad to see it preserved and even better, restored to as near original as possible. Maybe 15-20 years ago a former BR&P caboose owned by a similar organization out in Ohio was burned up - you could look right through the near side and see what was beyond the other side. They got the blueprints and rebuilt the caboose true to original. When 19216 is completed I'll have to come take a look at it. I do have a few interior pics of other cabooses in that series so if that can help, let me know.
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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby AteamSHS » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:28 pm

Thank you, I will. Still looking for more blue prints, we have some but all that we need. Side end & framing # R 7221 is one I would like to look at.
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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby AteamSHS » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:36 pm

Thanks Otto.
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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby BR&P » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:34 pm

This one really has me confused. Friends at the Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum have caboose NYC 19877 in nice shape, and if I'm not mistaken this is the ONLY one of NYC's wooden cabooses still rolling and in use rather than a static display.

Exploring the center sill for stencils of repairs, they came across not one, but TWO different caboose numbers marked there but painted over, in addition to NYC 19877. One was NYC 19001, the other was NYC 19536. Again, this is on the frame of the caboose itself, NOT on the trucks which can get swapped around.

I do know that when the transfer cabooses were being made in the mid 1960's, some wood cabooses had to be renumbered to avoid conflict. 18022 became 17365 for example. But the transfer cabooses did not get as high as 198xx series.

I can speculate that if many cabooses were in a shop such as Beech Grove, and there was heat from officials because they were behind, perhaps a demand that a given caboose be completed NOW might lead a foreman to restencil a newly-completed caboose with the demanded number to get the monkey off his back (as long as he remembered to make a similar adjustment when the REAL 19877 was completed later.) But 2 other numbers in addition to the current one?

Two other facts which might or might not be relevant. First, there WAS a NYC 19877 in the Rochester area, from at least 1964 to October 1967. If it went to Beech Grove during that time, it came back at least in number if not in body. Also, there was a NYC 19001 about this same time working the Fonda and Amsterdam NY area (it was painted green). I have no record of the 19536.

Anybody have any thoughts on how 3 different numbers could be found on the same caboose? Anybody involved with a museum displaying a different NYC wooden caboose ever do any close examination of the underside to see what details are revealed (or hidden ) there?
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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby ChiefTroll » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:20 pm

There was nothing sacred about a particular car number going through the shop as long as the cars were not secured by an equipment trust (bank loan). You might see four or five cabooses go into the shop, and pieces of all five, including a center sill, come out the door with one of the numbers on it. The "surviving" car was determined by the accounting department, depending on the tax situation at the time, the book values of the cars, depreciation (if any) and all sorts of other exotic stuff under the old ICC accounting rules.

So four of those five would be retired and written off the books. One caboose would be the subject of an AFE (Authorization for Capital Expenditure), and that number would be painted on the resulting car. Whichever one had the honor conferred upon it would depend on how the cash and material costs worked out.

- Gordon Davids
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Re: 19000-series Wooden Cabooses

Postby BR&P » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:46 pm

From an accounting and financial point of view, that makes perfect sense.

From a nostalgic, historical point of view, it rots! Image It would be much better to see a photo from 1935, and see that SAME car in a museum.

Oh well, that's reality!

Thanks, Gordon, you are a valuable resource! Image
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