Grand Central Hoaxes (GCT baggage car on the Today Show)

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Grand Central Hoaxes (GCT baggage car on the Today Show)

Postby SRS402 » Thu May 08, 2008 4:17 pm

Once again the "Secret FDR Baggage car" in GCT is in the news, this time nationaly with Matt Lauer reporting on this Historic find :P http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24514783#24514783
Nice shot of him inside the car showing all the cabling and supplies for the crane that this car was used for.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu May 08, 2008 7:45 pm

Just like I told everyone, and the doors would not be big enough for a yugo. The MNCX reporting mark was painted on the car in 1984 in North White plains, the car is one of 3 B-60 bagage cars left by Penn Central for Worktrain service, One was used for double ended crane, other used for wire train as workshop, the wire train car is now in Danbury(museum.
The third car was scrapped in 1989
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Postby nhv » Thu May 08, 2008 9:00 pm

So does anyone have an idea why this baggage car keeps popping up on the news? I can understand the possible "historical lure" but why does MN continue to play dumb and not report its factual history?
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu May 08, 2008 9:08 pm

Having people in management with no railroad history and only rich imagination, andnot willing to listen to facts
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Thu May 08, 2008 9:48 pm

Dan Brucker must be in on the joke, he's led reporters down there and told them the same story. Who knows why MN likes to propagate this lie... maybe they're getting money from the networks, who knows.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

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Postby FL9AC » Fri May 09, 2008 10:35 am

if trackworkers are almost "forbidden" to come near that area, why is there a piece of Metro-North track equipment sitting right next to the "armored baggage car"? There are some good imaginations and stories going on there. :wink:
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Postby CarterB » Fri May 09, 2008 12:08 pm

I wonder if MN management perpetrating this myth are also 'forbidden' to use their brains!!! Mr. Brucker stated the elevator was built specifically for FDR

According to http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html


"A stairway and a freight elevator run from the platform to a street entrance on 49 St. A comparison of plans before and after construction of the Waldorf-Astoria shows that the freight elevator is not original. At some date after 1913, it was built in the location of a former pipe shaft, and this was probably not possible until after the powerhouse closed in 1929. Therefore, it was installed together with construction of the hotel. Although it is within the envelope of the hotel building, it opens only onto the street."

Goes on to say:

"Its location above the tracks permitted the celebrated hostelry the unique distinction of its own railroad side track in the basement, so to speak. Officially identified as Track 61 in one of Grand Central's storage areas, with a freight elevator providing access to the hotel, the siding was used on occasion for the arrival or departure of distinguished guests traveling by private railroad cars.

General John J Pershing was the first to use it, on a visit to the city in 1938. During the 1944 campaign Franklin D Roosevelt gave a foreign policy address at the Waldorf and then descended into the "basement" to the presidential rail car for the journey home to Hyde Park. On other occasions the siding has been used for such diverse affairs as a 1947 "debut at the Waldorf" for a new 6,000 horsepower diesel locomotive, or for a 1965 "underground party" for pop artist Andy Warhol."

There is even more "REAL" info about the platform, elevator, and sidings
further on in the above reference web site.
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Postby Kamen Rider » Fri May 09, 2008 3:53 pm

these executives have their wires crossed, I'll say that right now. If all this stuff (track 61, the Dynamo room) is suposed to be all hush-hush, why is it on TV so much these days?

the so called "Platform area" does show up on track plans, partly because of the gap where track 62 should be; cut off by tower C. I can see the elavator, near Substation M50. they copy of the track plan I have DOES list a platform back there, between tracks 53 and 54 and labled "Adams Platform", runing from 48th street to 50th.
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Postby TacSupport1 » Sat May 10, 2008 12:13 pm

Maybe it's just a fun story, and positive publicity. Not everyone's into the technical nitty-gritty, and it's cool to see local and now international new media reporting on stories such as this- myth or not.
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Postby Tommy Meehan » Sat May 10, 2008 12:45 pm

I think Dan Brucker is doing what they used to call in
my neighborhood "selling woof tickets"! haha

What I found astonishing in the MSNBC segment is the
director of the Hyde Park (NY) FDR Museum and Library
has apparently been taken in by this yarn. She need's
a wake-up call. :-)

I've been told by a couple old timers who began when
GCT was still NY Central property, that they were
told by old timers that the platform and Tk 61 area
dates back to the terminal's opening in 1913 and was
originally called (and still sometimes is) the "Adams
platform." For Adams Express Company. Adams had a
retail express office around E.50th Street. People
would bring their packages in and Adams would load
wagons and take them down in the elevator to the
platform. (The Waldorf didn't open at the present site until
1931.) I believe express cars were loaded right off
the platform, then pulled by a switcher and placed
directly on outbound trains. The next morning these
packages were being delivered in places like Buffalo,
Montreal, Cleveland, Columbus Ohio, Chicago.

Man alive! Overnight delivery circa 1915!
Last edited by Tommy Meehan on Sat May 10, 2008 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Sat May 10, 2008 1:37 pm

Here is identical B-60 Bagage car from former wire train, the roof walk is since removed, its at Danbury Railway museum.
Look at those armored rivets and heavy duty trucks (standard for a B-600, look at how big doors are, not big enough for a limo.
Maybe since this has MNCX as well, its the presidents whatever car (you make up a story)
The third car was cut up when Bridgeport yard was being cleaned up in 1989
Image

Ps and the green paint you see Mr Brukner is Penn Central green and has nothing/nada /ziltz to do with dark green of most heavy weights of yesteryear
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Postby PRRGuy » Sat May 10, 2008 3:50 pm

MNCX 002 is not a B60B car..possibly NYC or NH heritage but not PRR. The photo shown above is a PRR car, note the round windows and curved roof line as opposed to the Heavyweight design that MNCX 002 is.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Sat May 10, 2008 5:50 pm

You may be right PRRGuy from view of side windows it may be a NYC 84** car or maybe even ex rutland.
I have not seen car in daylight since 1984 when it was repainted in North White Plains and renumbered MNCX 002
, MNCX 001 was the GCT double ended electric crane and MNCX 003 and 004 were the two idler flats as I remember.

Image

For more on Dan Bruckners special green see :

http://www.goldcoast-railroad.org/magellan.htm
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Postby jgallaway81 » Sun May 11, 2008 12:19 pm

The thing I love about this myth... especially if you watch the History Channel's disertation on this topic, is that they give you enough evidence to see they are wrong.

The heavyduty riviting and steel plate walls of the car are standard equipement for 1900-1930's era HEAVYWEIGHT cars. The rivits and car weight are from the fact that the car design incorporated a ~6" thick concrete slab as the car floor. The car was designed this way so that the heavy weight could be used to keep the cars on the rails of the roughly laid tracks. Remeber seeing pictures of the construction of the transcon??? They aren't even using shaped ties and tieplates, just newly fallen timber.

The steel plate is a safety factor for the passengers. During the era of wooden coaches, a sudden stop (loco crashes into mudslide/other train) would cause the coahces to 'telescope', sometimes sliding three or four cars into one. The steel plate became mandatory as train speeds increased, in order to prevent telescoping an entire train during a crash from 80mph.

The supposedly "overbuilt" trucks are once again, standard heavyweight 2-axle trucks... nearly identical to the Deleware, Lackawanna & Western "Boonton" coahes that the Arcade & Attica uses on it's excursions.

The car design harkens to either an old REA high-val express car, or a standard USPS Railway Post Office (RPO) car. My area of knowledge is more towards steam engines, not the cars the pulled, so the guesses about car type is just an educated guess.

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Re: GCT baggage car on the Today Show

Postby Terrapin Station » Sun May 11, 2008 6:50 pm

Wow, what another load of bull, continuing in a long line of bull about this topic. Dan was lying through his teeth when he said that reporting marks ending in "X" means that it doesn't belong to his RR and instead belongs to the Federal Government. Unbelievable.

SRS402 wrote:Once again the "Secret FDR Baggage car" in GCT is in the news, this time nationaly with Matt Lauer reporting on this Historic find :P http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24514783#24514783
Nice shot of him inside the car showing all the cabling and supplies for the crane that this car was used for.
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