Need info on NYC 0-8-0 built by Lima

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Need info on NYC 0-8-0 built by Lima

Postby WESTMIL » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:40 pm

Hello everyone,

I have a 1.6" live steam model of the locomotive shown in this LIMA ad. A few days ago I began research to add a few more details in regards to lettering. It turns out LIMA built a few 0-8-0 locos for NYC P&LE cab numbered in 8000-8019 (my 1.6" model is cab number 8000 just like the ad.) After research I can only find NYC 0-8-0 locos with cab numbers in the 7000's.

My question is: Where did these loco's end up with cab numbers 8000-8019? It's like they never existed but left LIMA numbered this way?

Bonus question if anyone can answer it: Info of the specific loco in the LIMA ad. This is the loco my model is modeled after.

Thank you in advance! I hope my photos show up after I hit post :)
Last edited by Otto Vondrak on Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: bad links
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby Backshophoss » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:36 pm

The 0-8-0 built by Lima was a 1918 dated USRA design, NYC class U3a,25 of this design were sent to P&LE.
On checking pgs 26-37 in the book "New York Central's Later power" by Staufer and May, the "0-8-0" chapter
shows numbers 8065,8051,8060,and 9000 with P&LE lettering.
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby Allen Hazen » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:07 am

I couldn't get the pictures-- not sure whether to blame my computer or my internet connection or….
But a bit more detail to supplement what Backshophoss has said. The New York Central class U3 0-8-0 was the USRA standard 0-8-0, which came to be something of an industry standard after WW I: built, with minor variations, to the end of steam. (Literally: the last steam locomotives built for a mainline U.S. railroad were minimally updated USRA 0-8-0 for the Norfolk and Western in 1953!)

The New York Central's classification system for steam locomotives used lots and lots of subclasses: there were 11 subclasses of U3 switchers, U3a to U3l (skipping only U3i). The New York Central system as a whole had over 400 of these locomotives, built from 1918 to 1944.
(Most NYC system U3 were built before the depression. It looks as if the P&LE was the last component to get them, apparently starting a program to replace earlier switchers in 1929, then suspending it until the economy started to recover in 1937, and -- the U.S. had a steel industry in those days! -- was the only component of the New York Central system to need more steam switchers during WW II.)

The subsidiary P&LE had 100 U3 switchers, in three batches:
--- 9000-9024 (later renumbered 7950-7974) built by Lima in 1929, Class U3j
--- 8000-8049 built by Lima in 1937, Class U3k
--- 8050-8074 built by Alco in 1944, Class U3l

(Information from George H.Drury, "Guide to North American Steam Locomotives," Kalmbach Books, 1993.)
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby Allen Hazen » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:13 am

(This question was -- sensibly -- cross-posted to the New York Central forum. Answers there.)
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby WESTMIL » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:34 am

That clears things up. My New York Central System 0-8-0 #8000 went to P&LE. It's nice to know the loco existed in real life.

Thank you guys for all the great info!

-Brian
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby urrengr2003 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:56 am

Bulldog 'On The Spot'.JPG
U-3L's on "Lake Erie" referred to as Bulldogs by engine crews.
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Re: Need info on NYC 0-8-0 built by Lima

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:50 am

WESTMIL wrote:Thank you in advance! I hope my photos show up after I hit post :)


I deleted the links because they did not lead to photos. Where did you find the photos originally?

-otto-
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby Allen Hazen » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:40 pm

It's an impressive model! 1.6 inch to the foot scale means … close to exact scale for 7 1/2 inch gauge track?
--
There is a Pittsburgh and Lake Erie historical society (I found their website a few years back while searching for something else): you could try contacting them if you want more information on the history of the 8000. The city of Pittsburgh tried very hard to reduce air pollution in the 1950s, and leaned on the railroads to eliminate steam locomotives. (I think the last PRR steam operations were all on lines that did NOT go through Pittsburgh.) But I don't know when, exactly, P&LE would have retired its steam switchers. Or whether some of them might have been transferred to the parent New York Central for their final year or two of service.
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby BR&P » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:29 pm

Don't hold your breath on the P&LE Historical Society - I tried to contact them a while back for something and never got a reply. YMMV.
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Re: Help with NYC loco!

Postby WESTMIL » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:37 pm

[quote="Allen Hazen"]It's an impressive model! 1.6 inch to the foot scale means … close to exact scale for 7 1/2 inch gauge track?
--

Hello Allen.

Correct. This loco runs on 7 1/2" track. It's just a touch bigger than most 1.5" locos. The reason most locos that run on 7 1/2" track are 1.5" in scale, is simplicity for the builder. Hope this helps. Thank you for all your info!

-Brian
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