Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remnants

Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.

Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remnants

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:00 pm

Another post got me to thinking about freight remnants in New York.

I imagine Port Chester was really active as they had several yards and much industry with the Byram River nearby. I can't think of anything active there now.

I can't think of anything really in Rye, past or present.

Harrison I know at one time had a crossing east of the station over Halstead Ave (the rails are probably still there but long disconnected). I'm not sure what they served. West of the station and Harrison Ave there's a set of buildings along there that I would assume had freight, but never saw any evidence of it.

Mamaroneck still has an active freight siding serving Marval Industries and crossing Fenimore Road. I'm not sure how far those tracks ever went. I also remember once looking at Historic Map Works and seeing how much bigger it was in years gone by. While there are two tracks now, at one point, the sidings spun off with additional sidings crossing Waverly Ave at various points, and other sidings off the two tracks that lead to Marval. Not sure if those are still there. In addition to tool and die places, there was also a large lumber yard at one point.

Larchmont had a freight house west of the station. If the land hasn't yet been developed, there's an access road along the tracks that still has tracks in it. Not active of course.

New Rochelle still has an active yard (for layup and maintenance of MNRR; no active freight) east of the station. West of the station after the split to the Harlem River branch was a short siding on a wooden bridge. Long disconnected, not sure what it served.

I can't think of anything in Pelham.

Mt. Vernon must have had a lot, but I dont' remember ever seeing any evidence of it. Perhaps east of the station towards Columbus Av, and west of the station at the border of the Bronx?

Can anyone add to this?
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7404
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby pbass » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:50 pm

adjacent to the eastbound platform at Mt.Vernon East was a yard for E.H.Kellog,just south of Columbus Ave was a side track for another customer.Noel Weaver would remember who the shipper was at that location.New Haven also seviced Woodlawn Paper adjacent to the NYC tower"Woodlawn" SS JO at E233rd Street and Bronx River Parkway in the Bronx.
pbass
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby Travelsonic » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:51 am

Jeff Smith wrote:I can't think of anything really in Rye, past or present.


I thought there was a coal siding there - I believe the 1929 Westchester County atlas viewable on historicmapworks depicts it perfectly.

Jeff Smith wrote:Harrison I know at one time had a crossing east of the station over Halstead Ave (the rails are probably still there but long disconnected). I'm not sure what they served. West of the station and Harrison Ave there's a set of buildings along there that I would assume had freight, but never saw any evidence of it.


Any sign that it split off the NYNH&H mainline/crossed Halstead is gone, but the building remains - don't know if any rails remain by the building though.

Jeff Smith wrote:Mamaroneck still has an active freight siding serving Marval Industries and crossing Fenimore Road. I'm not sure how far those tracks ever went. I also remember once looking at Historic Map Works and seeing how much bigger it was in years gone by. While there are two tracks now, at one point, the sidings spun off with additional sidings crossing Waverly Ave at various points, and other sidings off the two tracks that lead to Marval. Not sure if those are still there. In addition to tool and die places, there was also a large lumber yard at one point.


If you can suffer the painful loading times, historicaerials has images over the yard from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and I THINK 80s, and 00s, which - when compared to the diagram in the 1929 Westchester County atlas on that site, it all can paint a pretty good [albiet imperfect] timeline of the yard being scaled back.

Jeff Smith wrote:Larchmont had a freight house west of the station. If the land hasn't yet been developed, there's an access road along the tracks that still has tracks in it. Not active of course.


On wikimapia [a really cool site, btw if you don't know about it - uses a google map overlay, and people can mark off interesting places and put info/pictures about them up.], if you hover over the area I have already marked the yard and put photos from about 2 1/2 yrs ago when I walked down to that street. There IS a track thee, and when heading southwest from the station you can see it - at first perfectly, then bits of it become enveloped in concrete until you reach the end of the visible remains.

My terribly taken photo of part of this area, from a public street:

Image
Travelsonic
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:46 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:19 pm

THis is an interesting subject that would make a good Shoreliner article (if a prospective author could find photos). Fact is --- as pointed out in this thread --- there was quite a bit of local switching on both sides of the railroad west of Stamford, starting with the "Selleck's Cut" track (track 4 side west of Stamford station), on to Electrolux plant (track 3 side in Old Greenwich, where "Old Greenwich Gables" condo complex is today), coal at Cos Cob Power plant, and so on .............. I remember these and can still picture them in my mind. Too bad I didn't take photos (Well, too bad i didn't photogrpah a lot of things!!)
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby Noel Weaver » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:49 am

TCurtin wrote:THis is an interesting subject that would make a good Shoreliner article (if a prospective author could find photos). Fact is --- as pointed out in this thread --- there was quite a bit of local switching on both sides of the railroad west of Stamford, starting with the "Selleck's Cut" track (track 4 side west of Stamford station), on to Electrolux plant (track 3 side in Old Greenwich, where "Old Greenwich Gables" condo complex is today), coal at Cos Cob Power plant, and so on .............. I remember these and can still picture them in my mind. Too bad I didn't take photos (Well, too bad i didn't photogrpah a lot of things!!)


Yes and I can still remember at least some of them from working NX-2, NX-3, NX-4 and NX-6 off the Oak Point Spare Board both in my firing and my running days. In addition NH-1 and NH-2 again in my firing days.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9330
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby DBrion » Mon May 07, 2012 7:41 pm

Tom or Noel,

Were there any freight tracks into RB&W, Lifesaver (both Port Chester) or Arnold Bakery (Greenwich)? I also have a nagging recall about some trackage into South Stamford (the old Yale & Town complex?), but I could be mistaken
DBrion
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:36 pm

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby Noel Weaver » Tue May 08, 2012 9:10 am

DBrion wrote:Tom or Noel,

Were there any freight tracks into RB&W, Lifesaver (both Port Chester) or Arnold Bakery (Greenwich)? I also have a nagging recall about some trackage into South Stamford (the old Yale & Town complex?), but I could be mistaken


R B & W was switched by NX-2 or NX-3 but sometimes HN-2 would stop there and drop cars. Lifesaver was worked by NX-3. Arnold Bakery moved from the track four side to a new facility on the track three side both of which were in Connecticut. NX-3 worked it on the track four side and maybe the track three side as well. There was quite a bit of work in Port Chester on the westbound side at one time but all of it has been gone for many years now. Sometimes NX-6 would also get as far west as Port Chester although NX-6's first priority was the New Canaan Branch, they were almost always ready to head up to New Canaan right after the last dink got back to Stamford at night. If R B & W needed a switch sometimes NX-6 would go west well before it was time to do the New Canaan Branch work and in those days there was plenty of work on the New Canaan Branch too.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9330
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon May 14, 2012 7:53 am

Here's a question that could be at least marginally related to what we're discussing here:
at the eadt end of Rye station, track 4 side. are some cat bridges that extend into the parking lot. There must of have been tracks under them once, but it would have been before my time riding the line. Can anybody comment on this?

(Note: this has NOTHING TO DO with the NY Westchester & B tracks which were on the track 3 side!!)
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon May 14, 2012 8:00 am

Jeff Smith wrote:New Rochelle still has an active yard (for layup and maintenance of MNRR; no active freight) east of the station. West of the station after the split to the Harlem River branch was a short siding on a wooden bridge. Long disconnected, not sure what it served.

Can anyone add to this?


New Haven's New Rochelle yard on the track 4 side was pretty large, and I would certainly surmise there must have been some freight business in there. It took up that whole area where the shopping centers on Palmer Ave. are now --- and that extension of Palmer Ave. did not exist then (at least I don't think so).

I presume the "short siding on a wooden bridge" you refer to is the one on the track 3 side west of the junction. It must have been a coal trestle for somebody --- things like that were usually for unloading coal. This does not necessarily mean that whatever was there was a coal company per se.
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon May 14, 2012 8:07 am

Jeff Smith wrote:Larchmont had a freight house west of the station. If the land hasn't yet been developed, there's an access road along the tracks that still has tracks in it. Not active of course.

There was a freight customer at that spot called Henigson's Lumber
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon May 14, 2012 8:20 am

Noel Weaver wrote:R B & W was switched by NX-2 or NX-3 but sometimes HN-2 would stop there and drop cars. Lifesaver was worked by NX-3.
Noel Weaver

I presume Lifesaver was served by the yard on track 3 side just east of the station. There weren't tracks into the Lifesaver building proper, were there?

Also, a question: What, and where, was "RB&W"?
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Mon May 14, 2012 8:29 am

Since I'm on a roll here, let me add to this VERY VERY VERY interesting disussion something that I bet many of you don't know: all the yards and sidings we're discussing here were once electrified. The New Haven operated this 100% electric (except, of course for the wire train, which was steam!) until about 1952 or so --- I'm not sure of the exact date the change occurred --- when local freight and yard operation was dieselized.
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon May 14, 2012 12:40 pm

TCurtin wrote:
Jeff Smith wrote:New Rochelle still has an active yard (for layup and maintenance of MNRR; no active freight) east of the station. West of the station after the split to the Harlem River branch was a short siding on a wooden bridge. Long disconnected, not sure what it served.

Can anyone add to this?


New Haven's New Rochelle yard on the track 4 side was pretty large, and I would certainly surmise there must have been some freight business in there. It took up that whole area where the shopping centers on Palmer Ave. are now --- and that extension of Palmer Ave. did not exist then (at least I don't think so).

I presume the "short siding on a wooden bridge" you refer to is the one on the track 3 side west of the junction. It must have been a coal trestle for somebody --- things like that were usually for unloading coal. This does not necessarily mean that whatever was there was a coal company per se.


I'll have to look back; I do know Palmer Avenue at one point didn't extend much past Larchmont. I do remember when they built the "extension" into New Rochelle and Huguenot St.; must have been the 60's. That would have been after what you mention in your other post about the electrified freight service.

On the west side past "Shell" yes that's the one. It just looks so rickety!
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7404
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby Noel Weaver » Mon May 14, 2012 10:55 pm

There is a lot of stuff on here at this point but I will try to shed some light on some of the questions.
Rye on the track four side consisted of, I think, two tracks with a runaround move possible. It was used as a team track and also for baggage cars of either/or mail express. It was known as "Rye Hole".
New Rochelle (Old Yard in this case) had maybe a team track, a lay up or two lay up tracks for the local freights, a wire train lay up track plus the MU lay up tracks which were east of the Cedar Street Bridge. I don't remember there being any particular freight customers in this yard except what went through the team track. Port Chester, Lifesavers had, I think, two short tracks inside the building that held one tank car each for the delivery of again I think corn syrup. Finally the electric switcers and electric freights, after McGinnis took over in 1954 one of his goals was to get ride of as much electric as possible and in this regard the last of the electric switchers went around 1957 or 1958. Last places used were one or two NX jobs out of New Rochelle and Stamford Yard. I am not sure that every last side track on the east end of the electrified territory had wire, it seems to me that at least some of them were always switched by either steam or later diesel. Even in the days of all of the electric switchers still being in or available for service there was not nearly enough of these engines to do all switching west of New Haven. In fact no electric switchers were used in South Norwalk, Bridgeport or New Haven on yard assignments with the exception of two DC engines in Bridgeport for the Seaview Avenue spur. Even in the 40's East Bridgeport Yard which still had a lot of work was switched by diesels and in earlier years by steam. There was trackage in Bridgeport that did not have wire as well. For one I don't think the tunnel under the mainline was every wired. One interesting catch to all of this was the wye at New Rochelle Junction which was used only to turn steam engines and was never wired either. One thing about the New Haven Railroad, you could always count on exceptions to the above.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9330
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Western New Haven (i.e. New York) Main Line Freight Remn

Postby TCurtin » Wed May 16, 2012 7:59 am

Noel Weaver wrote: Lifesavers had, I think, two short tracks inside the building that held one tank car each for the delivery of again I think corn syrup.
I'm having trouble picturing this. The old Life Saver building is at the corner of Rt 1 and Horton Ave., across Horton Ave. from the end of the former small NH yard on track 3 side. The way this area has recently been developed there is no visible remnant of any track into the plant, but was there a track in the NH yard that continued across Horton Ave and into the back of the Life Saver plant?
TCurtin
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Next

Return to New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad NYNH&HRR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests