Crosspost: Late '50's Montrealer route questions

Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.

Crosspost: Late '50's Montrealer route questions

Postby davidp » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:48 pm

Posted on the B&M/MEC board, but maybe NH historians can help....thanks

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=157435
Dave
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Re: Crosspost: Late '50's Montrealer route questions

Postby charding » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:19 am

I have a November 1958 Official Guide; here is the consist as listed for train #168, The Montrealer:
Sleeping cars [Car # 1687]: Washington to Montreal [berths, bedrooms, roomettes] - from PRR #152 at New York.
Car #s 1684-1686, inclusive - New York [Penna Station] to Montreal [berths, bedrooms, roomettes, buffet lounge]

Dining car - Washington to New York [Penna Station]

Coaches - Washington to New York [Penna Station]; New York [Penna Station ] to Montreal

Train #169 - The Washingtonian:
Sleeping cars [Car #2008] Montreal to Washington [berths, bedrooms, roomettes] [to PRR #115 at New York]
Car #s 2005-2007, inclusive - Montreal to New York [Penna Station] [berths, bedrooms, roomettes, buffet lounge]

Dining car - New York [Penna Station] to Washington

Coaches - Montreal to New York [Penna Station]; New York [Penna Station] to Washington
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Re: Crosspost: Late '50's Montrealer route questions

Postby davidp » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:43 pm

Thanks charding! I've answered a couple of my own questions (and created others) looking more closely at the Kevin Holland book and the CN/CV pages of the May 1959 Guide. The Guide shows all of the assigned sleepers as 6-4-6 cars, with the exception of the 6DB-buffet. Holland confirms these lines were covered by CN Green-series and NH Beach-series cars. I think the B&M 6-4-6 cars made their first appearance on the Montrealer/Washingtonian as the WRJ setout sleeper in 1959. Prior to that they had been assigned to the Gull and the State of Maine covering the Concord, NH setout sleeper line. Holland also describes some fascinating early 1960s correspondence between the various Montrealer operating roads regarding the B&M's efforts to add their 6-4-6's to the pool in order to earn Pullman lease income. The upshot is the NH was opposed as they saw no market for open section space, although likely had a vested interest in keeping their own 6-4-6s and 14-4s working during the period of declining sleeper travel.

There's conflicting information out there about the 6DB buffet. Holland states clearly that this service was provided by Pullman heavyweights Dover Harbor and Dover Cliffs until reassignment of NH's State-series streamlined cars following the State of Maine's discontinuance in 1960. However, the website for Dover Harbor - now a PV - lists 1954 as the date when the new cars took over, with the heavyweights being retained as backup equipment. I suspect this in inacurate though. Other sources list the State-series cars' initial assignments at the State of Maine and Federal - with only four cars in the series that's all they could cover. I suppose CN cars could have been used, by haven't seen any evidence of this.
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