Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

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Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:34 pm

On another forum, we had fun creating this list from a variety of sources. I'd appreciate any additional contributions that anyone has!

The List

GE

B18-7

U33CG

U18C-North American extension of the U18B

U56

U18BT

U15BT

U33CG

B40-8(B)

C23-7

B28-7

C28-7

B23-8

B33-7

C33-7

EMD

DD40A

SD39-DC

SD55

AMT-125

RB3600

GMDH-2

SD40-2B

GP2000

SD39-2

SDL39-2

SD59

SD49

TR12

F45B

TR9

F18

F20

M-K

MK5000AC

MK6000AC

F-M

CFA-24

CFB-24

CPB-20

CPB-24

ALCO

PA-3

FA-4

C428

C620

C624

C636F

C636P(A)

C636P(B)

C650DH

RSD-33

SSB1 (S1 calf)

SSB2 (S2 calf)

Ingalls

3-S

16-S

5-S

17A

MLW

RSC-23

RS-13

RS-24

Bombardier

HR416

HR618

HR406

Lima

800 HP BB road switcher

1600 HP center cab C-C road switcher/transfer

2400 HP center cab C-C road switcher/transfer

3200 HP CC cab unit powered by 6 free piston generators powering a turbine.

1600 HP Switcher Combo

2400HP Switcher Combo

Baldwin

1000 HP C-C Road Switcher

1500 HP C-C Road Transfer (streamlined car body)

3000 HP A1A-A1A Road Locomotive

Phases/Other

Q cab Dash-7 GEs

Dash 8-32C (later updated phase of C32-8 that would have been somewhat like NS's Dash 8-32Bs)

A1A G16

B-B G16

And newly added, thanks to Pnuedyne, the EMD R, and possibly a G6.
If anyone else has any more, please speak up! Thanks!
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby Pneudyne » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:49 pm

Looking at the GE export Universal series of locomotives, of the nine models originally catalogued in the original 1956 release, two were never built.

These were the U4B, a less powerful but dimensionally similar version of the U6B, and the U18B, a B-B version of the U18C, and therefore with the low profile (12 ft x 9 ft) cross-section, making it distinct from the UD18B, which was built, albeit only for NdeM. The U4B had been dropped from the catalogue by 1959, and the designation was never recycled.

The second iteration of the export Universals, dating from 1961 or thereabouts, mostly involved a rerating of the C-B engine so that the quoted gross power aligned with the UIC convention, coupled with minor changes.

Of the nine models catalogued, four were never built, namely the U10B, U10C, U20B and U26C.

The U10B and U10C road-switchers were direct successors to the U9B and U9C respectively, using the 6-cylinder C-B engine. They were soon dropped from the catalogue, and circa 1964 the U10B designation was recycled and applied to an uprated version of the end-cab unit with the 12-cylinder Caterpillar engine that had been released previously as the UM10B.

The U20B was the direct successor to the original U18B, and like that model, was never built. It also soon disappeared from the catalogue.

The U26C offering of that time was basically a heavier version of the U20C fitted with the 16-cylinder engine and available for SB gauge applications only. I imagine that it was released to address the same potential market as were the Alco DL560 and EMD GT16. This U26C seemed to disappear from the GE list fairly quickly, and the U26C designation was recycled for the uprated (2750/2600 hp) and longer and heavier 12-cylinder model at the end of the 1960s.

It might be noted that in 1961, the catalogue showed the U10B/C, U13B/C, U20B/C and U26C road switchers as having high short hoods. But no U20C of that form were built; by the time the first batch, for Colombia, were built in 1964, GE had changed to its initial (longer) low-short hood outline. So it might be said that the initial iteration of the U20C was never built.

Documentary evidence for the above never-built GE export models I can perhaps place in the “GE Export Diesels” thread, which seems to be an appropriate place.

Amongst GE domestic market Universals, another never-built model appears to have been the U56, mentioned along with the U28B and U28C in a brief item in Railway Gazette for 1965 December 01, which I have attached. I’d say that the U28 was the intended successor to the U50; it was described as having twin engines and eight axles. So it probably had the same span-bolster type B-B-B-B wheel arrangement as the U50.

To summarize this list in linear form:

U4B
U18B (export Universal of 1956, not the later domestic Universal)
U10B (export Universal of 1961, not the later end-cab export Universal)
U10C
U20B (export Universal of 1961)
U26C (export Universal of 1961 with 16-cylinder engine; not the later 12-cylinder export Universal)
U56 (domestic Universal of 1965)

Cheers,

RG 19651201 p.760 GE U28B, U28C, U56a.gif
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:45 pm

Thank you very much! Documentation would be useful, if it isn't too much trouble. You have done such an amazing job already. I appreciate the thoroughness! Once again, a big thank you!

I went through the ALCO specification list and found what I think are a few models, which I will post later today once I have made better sense of them. It is hard to tell what was actually offered and what was not.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:34 pm

Okay, now for the Alcos. I'm neglecting to include specification numbers since they aren't really neccesary for this purpose, but I could find them again if needed.

The first export models are part of the DL500 series, which intersects interestingly with the FA series. There is the FA1 and FA2, FPx3 export, F(P)A4, and then FPx5, FPx6 and FPx7 export models. Similarly to RS models, a C was to indicate an A1A-A1A model, and a D was used to indicate a C-C model.

As for models, I think these were not built:

FP3

FP6

FPC6

FP7

FPC7

Bombardier export models:

MX412

MX415

MX612

And now for the maybes.

E1671: RSX22, intended to be a successor to the RSX4(MRS1)

E1648: RSD1B

E1400: HH150

E1503: HH400

E411: Some sort of 800hp center cab.

I'm not sure how horsepower would be reduced on the HH models.

And, the DL531 A1A-A1A.
Anyone else have more comments or information?
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby EDM5970 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:51 am

I have seen a brochure for what would have been the Alco FA-3. It would have been similar to the last FA-2s, the Dl-212A units built for the L&N in June, 1956. The static excitation of the DL-212A would have been retained, but the 12-244 engine would have been replaced with a 12-251B. If this sounds familiar, MLW produced the passenger version of this unit (same mechanical and electrical specs) as the
DL-218 FPA-4, starting in October 1958.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:48 pm

The FA-3 was designated as the FA-4 prior to it introduction in order to clear the 3 series for the FP3/FPD3/FCP3 models. I think had the FA-4 (which is in the list above) been built, it still would have had specification DL218 regardless of the model name change. Alco offered both the FA-4 and FPA-4 but with the overall decline in cab unit sales Alco received no takers.

B units are not included in the list above as they are redundant since the A unit model was not built, unless only the B or A unit was not built and its accompanying unit was, then it is marked as such.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby EDM5970 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:58 pm

So what would the '3 series' have had for prime movers and excitation?
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:17 pm

The 3 series had 12-244s and static excitation, and were built alongside the FA-2s. (The FP3, though, was not built).
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby mtuandrew » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:45 pm

Does anyone have a picture of the EMD AMT125 concept? It sounds like a cross between the BR Class 43 and the MLW/VIA Rail LRC power car, but I've never seen the proposal.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby MEC407 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:17 pm

I would add the GEVO Genesis passenger loco to the GE list. (Pics/info in the GE forum.)
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:02 pm

Unfortunately I can't find a photo, but you are correct. It would have been a late 1970s high speed tilting power car similar to the LRC, weighing in at 225,000lbs. It would have used 40-series components, and would probably have been mostly mechanically similar to an F40PH.

I'm not going to add the GEVO repower proposal as it is still possible that some will be converted. My policy is not to add units until they are out of the catalogue. (The ES23B repower is similar in that regard.) Thanks for the comments!
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby MEC407 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:49 pm

I wasn't referring to the repower; I was referring to the new-build/redesigned Genesis that GE proposed a few years ago. They had artists' renderings of a totally redesigned carbody in one of the railway journals. As far as I know they've since withdrawn that proposal. The carbody design would no longer work with the Tier 4 GEVO.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby mtuandrew » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:26 pm

NorthWest wrote:Unfortunately I can't find a photo, but you are correct. It would have been a late 1970s high speed tilting power car similar to the LRC, weighing in at 225,000lbs. It would have used 40-series components, and would probably have been mostly mechanically similar to an F40PH.

Shame, I'd like to see one. Wonder whether the design influenced the DE30AC and the F125 at all.

MEC407 wrote:
NorthWest wrote:I'm not going to add the GEVO repower proposal as it is still possible that some will be converted. My policy is not to add units until they are out of the catalogue. (The ES23B repower is similar in that regard.) Thanks for the comments!
I wasn't referring to the repower; I was referring to the new-build/redesigned Genesis that GE proposed a few years ago. They had artists' renderings of a totally redesigned carbody in one of the railway journals. As far as I know they've since withdrawn that proposal. The carbody design would no longer work with the Tier 4 GEVO.

Why not? I know it needs a ton of radiator space, but there are some mighty creative engineers at GE who could come up with a solution. :wink:
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby NorthWest » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:04 pm

I see. Sorry! I'll have to look into this, and would appreciate any tips on places where there is more information available.
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Re: Diesels Catalogued, but not Built

Postby MEC407 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:48 pm

There is a thread about it in the GE forum.
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