Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

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Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby FRN9 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:34 pm

Does anyone know what it would take to engineer an ALP46a or an ACS64-class locomotive to be able to use either 3rd rail or catenary power?
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:03 pm

a new railroad, as the engine would be severely over weight.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby FRN9 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:04 pm

Dutch,

That was the essence of my question. Thank you. Please forgive my ignorance on these matters, but what about the DC version of the AEM7's. Could they have operated with a 3rd rail without adding too much weight?

DutchRailnut wrote:a new railroad, as the engine would be severely over weight.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:24 pm

it still would have added a lot of weight , not only shoe beams and shoe mechs but heavy cables, a DC circuit breaker a huge transfer switch a reactance coil , and all control circuitry.
And then still it has to short a wheel base to be usefull.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby dowlingm » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:00 am

It's difficult for non-railroaders like myself to grasp things like this sometimes (why cat and third rail can be packaged in an M8 set but not a locomotive). Among other issues, the continued need to support 25Hz AC in the New York area (but which M8 don't) means transformer cores are heavier than they might otherwise be.

Came across this interesting (to me) article about 25 kV 50Hz AC and 750V DC operations in the UK while googling on this.
http://www.railengineer.uk/2013/04/10/h ... d-its-day/
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby CLamb » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:55 pm

So is the real problem not having to support two methods of power delivery but two different types of electricity?
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby FRN9 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:21 pm

After I posted the question, I remembered that the Eurostar supports both 3rd rail and Catenary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_373
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:27 pm

Cool but original poster asked for diesel with both 3th rail and catenary, all other has been off topic.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby Patrick Boylan » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:43 pm

Dutch, I'm not a railroader, but I have gotten the impression you think you are. Please tell me where the original post mentioned anything that someone with railroad knowledge would think had anything to do with diesel?
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:17 am

you got me, I misread
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby dowlingm » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:03 pm

FRN9 wrote:After I posted the question, I remembered that the Eurostar supports both 3rd rail and Catenary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_373
Eurostar is EMU though, and they removed the shoes after the High Speed 1 alignment opened.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby MattW » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:31 pm

dowlingm wrote:
FRN9 wrote:After I posted the question, I remembered that the Eurostar supports both 3rd rail and Catenary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_373
Eurostar is EMU though, and they removed the shoes after the High Speed 1 alignment opened.

Actually it isn't an EMU, it's more like the TGV or Acela with leading and trailing unoccupied (except for the engineer) power cars.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby ExCon90 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:52 pm

And as far as I know it was successful; the only reason for removing the third-rail equipment was that it no longer operates in third-rail territory.
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby BandA » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:34 pm

MBTA blue line subway cars have or had catenary + 3rd rail

How big is a transformer for these electric locomotives, and how much do they weigh? I can't wrap my head around why electric locos aren't much smaller than diesel-electric which has to carry a big diesel + generator
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Re: Dual Mode: 3rd Rail + Catenary locomotive

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:00 pm

http://www.marthinusen.co.za/uploads/im ... rticle.jpg for locomotive transformer a unit for a EMU is about 1/7th of that size and still weighs around 20 000 lbs
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