Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graham

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Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graham

Postby walterconklin » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:01 pm

Hello,

I am working with a friend on creating a virtual representation of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown, NY to Otisville, NY. The virtual route is for the Microsoft Train Simulator platform. Rails are in place from New Hampton to Summit (Middletown). My friend and I might eventually expand the route beyond this area. Researching, I came across the wonderful photographs of the Erie mainline on Ron Dukaram's website. I am wondering if anyone else has other photographs of the mainline that use to exist from Middletown, NY to Graham. Diagrams of the trackage on the mainline that use to exist between these locales would also be very helpful.


Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Walter Conklin
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:48 pm

Graham Junction (FX) is a massive headache.

Try my best to describe this:

Guymard Turnpike paralleled Graham Station, crossing on a bridge just north of it. Followed by Graham Station, which ran aside the station with two parking spaces next to the Erie Type IV stone station. Next to the tracks were Graham Line 1, Graham Line 2, then a slight upgrade where we saw Main Line 1, Main Line 2, which curved to the northeast out of sight. Finally, Graham Line Track 3, which crossed under the main line. FX Tower was north of the station, along with the small tool house.

This scene looks a lot different now. Tracks 1 and 2 are condensed to 1 for the Graham Line. The Main Line tracks are gone, torn up, the ROW for only 1 track remaining. The rest is all woods.
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby WQ59B » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:55 pm

The depot at Guymard was wood construction from my recollection & Dukaram's pics... but I would welcome ANY other pics of that station, even if it proved my recollection wrong.

Graham Line #2 was torn up in the '70s- I can remember it being there, and remember piles of ties, spikes, etc when it was being removed. RR also removed the raised stone bed for Line #2 at the same time. I've been going up to that area since I was 4 in 1970... so for me to remember it with some interest, I would say I would've been at least 8.

I posted some before & after shots here :
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=54241&p=595250&hilit=guymard#p595250
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:20 pm

Although not actual photos, here are some work-in-progress shots of the virtual representation of Guymard in the expanded Middletown & Unionville Railroad project for Microsoft Train Simulator. The virtual M&U project includes a portion of the Erie Mainline and Graham line.

Guymard Bridge1.jpg
Guymard Bridge1.jpg (98.02 KiB) Viewed 3417 times

Guymard Bridge2.jpg
Guymard Bridge2.jpg (72.13 KiB) Viewed 3421 times



Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 pm

Almost perfect. The far left track needs a second one next to it. Remember it was 2 Graham -> 2 Main -> Graham 3
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:39 pm

Thank you for that information about the track layout. I did not know that about the number of tracks. What time period are you basing your figure of the number of tracks? The virtual Erie route is set in late 1920s.

Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:06 pm

walterconklin wrote:Thank you for that information about the track layout. I did not know that about the number of tracks. What time period are you basing your figure of the number of tracks? The virtual Erie route is set in late 1920s.

Sincerely,
Walter


1909 - When the Graham Line was opened. That is technically when all this was designed.
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:45 pm

Hello,

My friend, who is laying the track in the virtual route wrote me, "There were only 4 tracks passing what was left of the station at Graham.... all pictures show this. Perhaps he is talking about an ancient (pre 1906-07) arrangement ... not sure. I have the right number of tracks. I just have to juggle the underpass and rearrange that track ducking under to a more acute angle than I have it... the overpass girders are too long...."

Walter
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby WQ59B » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:21 pm

There were 2 tracks going thru the Otisville Tunnel in more recent times, but when that was vs. the 2 Main Line tracks (going over the mountain) were removed, I haven't been able to uncover. 'Chronological overlap' there may be the reason behind '5 tracks' (tho of course the RH / 5th track is just a short bypass loop).
Walter, IMO you might consider angling the Main Line tracks a bit more to the right; the 2nd pic indicates a bend that wasn't there- that section over the below RH track is arrow straight- the overpass is at a very steep angle to the track on top of it.

I would greatly like to see an overview/ map view of the layout for this area when it's done.
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby WQ59B » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:38 pm

According to historicaerials.com, in 1965, there was still 1 track going over the mountain (you have to scroll north towards Otisville to make it out for sure), and the 2 going thru the Tunnel. The RH 'loop' track was gone by '65.
Depot was still there in '75, but it appears the Main Line track was gone by then (image isn't as clear for '75).
Years available to view are '65, '75 & '06
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:55 am

walterconklin wrote:Hello,

My friend, who is laying the track in the virtual route wrote me, "There were only 4 tracks passing what was left of the station at Graham.... all pictures show this. Perhaps he is talking about an ancient (pre 1906-07) arrangement ... not sure. I have the right number of tracks. I just have to juggle the underpass and rearrange that track ducking under to a more acute angle than I have it... the overpass girders are too long...."

Walter


I have non-online pictures of them tearing up the 5th track (Graham 2), I tell you it existed.
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:12 pm

Hello again,

According to my friend, he cannot “angle the main line overpass more than what is shown” because of limitations with Microsoft Train Simulator and adjusting the terrain would be further difficult. He is aware that south of the Guymard Tpk bridge the track is placed a little too far to the West than the track markers he used to lay the other portions of track.

My friend goes on to write, “I don't have a 5th track so I don't know what that refers to. The Erie DID have a 3rd mainline track going up the mountain into Otisville used as a pusher slow track until the graham line was built... at that time the 3rd track up the steeper grade was removed since it became unnecessary when heavier freights could be routed over the Graham & hrough the tunnel and (if necessary) switched over to the main line at Howells Jct. ifthe Graham line to Campbell Hall was backed up. The tracks UP grade on the main line were removed after the 1950 switch to the Graham line for ALL traffic (frt. and pass.) The only remaining mainline track was the westbound main from Howells Jct. into Otisville village to serve a coal dealer and possibly one feed store (Wallace & Co.)..... No tracks were left west of the village and down grade to Graham."

Please note that the track layout of the virtual route is appropriate for the late 1920s to the early 1950s prior to the adoption of CTC and abandonment of the Mainline west of Otsiville to Graham.

I hope that makes sense.

Sincerely,
Walter
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:53 pm

Hi,

I realized in hindsight that Railroad.net doesn't host photos, so I have since uploaded the screenshots of the virtual Guymard to another site. Here are the links to the screenshots:

http://img80.imageshack.us/i/grahamintlking1.jpg/
http://img541.imageshack.us/i/subwayunderpassgraham.jpg/

SIncerely,
Walter
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:21 am

First image is missing the section tool house shanty across adjacent to FX Tower.
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Re: Photos of the Old Erie Mainline from Middletown to Graha

Postby walterconklin » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:43 am

Thank you for the feedback. The screenshots show work-in-progress on the route. I am sure that my friend will add the section house soon.

Walter
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