Buttzville double x-ing

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Buttzville double x-ing

Postby Railjourner » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:05 pm

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone would know when the DL&W tracks were pulled up over the crossing (or the old road in general). Was it around the time the L&H's tracks were pulled or much earlier? Thanks for your help.
"I can no more conceive of a world without railroads and trains to run on them than I can imagine wishing to live in such a world." J. Hall
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AT BUTTZVILLE?

Postby henry6 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:38 am

The L&HR and DL&W Old Road were at two different elevations, so the DL went over top the L&HR. The L&HR existed into CR so was picked up afterwards where the DL&W Old Road was picked up much earlier. The EL picked up the Old Road in the early 70's while L&HR was demolished at the inception of CR. By the way, a trip along RT46 a few weeks ago shows that there is still rail on the roadbed in the Great Meadows-Vienna stretch!
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AS ANOTHER NOTE

Postby henry6 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:17 pm

As another note, there was some kind of factory or processing plant that was served by both railroads there effecting an unofficial interchange condition. It was on the southeast quadrant of the crossing area.
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Postby njmidland » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:17 pm

By the way, a trip along RT46 a few weeks ago shows that there is still rail on the roadbed in the Great Meadows-Vienna stretch!


The owner of the Great Meadows station bought about 1 mile of the right of way from Conrail when the line was torn up - so that there would always be track in front of the station.
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Postby Railjourner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:52 pm

Early 70's ok roughly 10 yrs then before the L&H's where yanked, thanks for the info. I have a pic some where of the tracks being pulled on the rail bridge that crossed Rt 31 in Hampton but I can't locate it. I imagine they where pulled up around the same time as the pequest crossing. Too bad they took down the Changewater trestle! I would have loved to hike that. The Great Meadows station is much cooler with the tracks still there I applaud the owner who ever he or they are. I just wish they'd fix it up and turn it into a museum or something.
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I KNOW THE RT 31 PIC

Postby henry6 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:05 am

I know the RT 31 picture you're talking about...it may have been in The Lackawanna Magazine and was back in the mid to late 50's. That was the Hampton Branch from Washington to Hampton on the CNJ, actually the original Warren Railroad from the Delaware Water Gap connection with the DL&W (and later leased to the DL&W). It crossed the Morris and Essex Railroad at Washington (M&E later leased to DL&W).
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Re: AT BUTTZVILLE?

Postby budd5670 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:47 pm

henry6 wrote:The L&HR and DL&W Old Road were at two different elevations, so the DL went over top the L&HR. The L&HR existed into CR so was picked up afterwards where the DL&W Old Road was picked up much earlier. The EL picked up the Old Road in the early 70's while L&HR was demolished at the inception of CR. By the way, a trip along RT46 a few weeks ago shows that there is still rail on the roadbed in the Great Meadows-Vienna stretch!


I used to live in between Allamuchy and Johnsonburg NJ when i was a kid 1970-1980. I remember the L&HR, and do remeber at least a few trains running on the Cutoff, but vaguely. I lived about 1.5 miles from the LHR tracks, every time I heard a horn, I either tried to peddle my bike to make it to the next crossing, or begged anyone who had a vehicle to take me 'right away". Looking back on that now, I know I never would have made it, even if LHR was northbound going 5 mph, in a car!!! I can remember LHR going through Great Meadows, my aunt lived there a few houses down from the road that went to the Island dragway. I remember going to Johnny's Hotdogs too, hearing LHR/Conrail at that time whistling away out back of therefor Pequest Furnace Rd, I think???. Used to go to Rogers transfer with my granfather in Townsbury, would see one there at one time too. Drove me crazy, couldn't get anywhere to see them on my own, had to be in passing all the time. Went back down in the summers after 1980 to vist freinds/relatives and remember CR then, but only those few days I was around to take note. I wish I could have seen more. Just was down there this August, right on RT46 like you had said!!! :-)
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Postby the missing link » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:17 pm

I was out exploring that section of the old road today, the bridge over Changewater must've been impressive, the piers(still there) must be near 70' high. I found the east portal of Manunka Chunk Tunnel, sort of a holy grail because of it's funny name and innacessibility. The Butzville bridges were pretty neat to check out as well. Further up the stream (Pequest River) along the L&H, the r.o.w. of the older iron mine above was clearly visible.
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NEED DIRECTIONS

Postby henry6 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:35 pm

Need directions to both tunnel mouths of Manunka CHunk myself as I have always wanted to find them. Another one you missed was the Oxford tunnel: north (railroad west) bore can be accessed almost easily but the southern (railroad east) face is impossible I am told because of private property issues.
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Postby the missing link » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:08 pm

The east portal of Manunka Chunk Tunnel is accesible from Upper Sarepta Rd, theres a farm road where the r.o.w. crossed, didn't see any signage, I think it might be state natureland, saw some of their signs further in.So far I have not been able to find the west portal, it might be filled over. I went over Oxford Tunnel on Rt.31, the north end is in an abandoned farm that did have no tresspassing signs, so I turned around not to offend. The south end is a short hike off the road in the woods, theres a picnic pulloff on the right going north. Didn't see any restrictive signage on that side. In my Delorme atlas a spur is shown going south from Oxford, winding around Oxford Mtn. Does anyone know what that was for?
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THE MAPS IN TABER

Postby henry6 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:48 am

The maps in Taber suggest 1) the mine/furnace spur which was in service into the late '50s at least, or 2) the original road up over the mountain before the tunnel. FYI: I have been warned about black snakes and copperheads in season throughout the area.
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Postby JimBoylan » Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:19 pm

the missing link wrote:Manunka Chunk Tunnel, So far I have not been able to find the west portal, it might be filled over.
What did you find when you walked through?
All the water that goes in the East portal becomes a mountain stream at the other end, making a steep drop to and then under U.S. Rte. 46. Just North of there is a dirt driveway, going steeply up to the NorthEast. Hike South on the roadbed about 3/4 mile to the portals. Or a longer hike North on the BelDel from U.S. Rte. 46 crossing.
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Postby the missing link » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:50 am

i decided against going any further than the ambient light, i did also notice what could have been an origional r.o.w. over the top. of note, there are 2 bores. nothing fancy like a portal or masonry, just rough blasted rock.
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Postby RichNYSME » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:51 am

There is an easy way to get to the West Portals of Manunka Chunk. When going east on Rt 46 you will pass the old Lackawanna bridge crossing the Delaware on the right. Approx 1/2 to 3/4 mile down the road you will see a daycare building on the left. There is a path there that leads up the hill. When you come to the top, make a left (RR west) and walk about 3-5 minutes and you're there! See the New York Society of Model Engineers website at www.modelengineers.org and look for the trips and activities box. Click there and look at the "tunnel tour" pictures and you'll see a shots taken on our Good Friday trip including one of the west bores of Manunka Chunk. PM or email me for further details.
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Postby Railjourner » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:15 pm

Thanks for the link (www.modelengineers.org). Nice web site. Terrific pics.
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