NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

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NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby transit man » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:45 pm

Does anyone have a date for the last passenger train to operate on the E-L former NY & GL RR north of Mountain View and from which station?
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Greg » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:55 am

transit man wrote:Does anyone have a date for the last passenger train to operate on the E-L former NY & GL RR north of Mountain View and from which station?


October 1966 was the last shuttle from Wanaque-Midvale to Mt. View for transfer onto the Hoboken bound trains.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:36 am

Greg wrote:
transit man wrote:Does anyone have a date for the last passenger train to operate on the E-L former NY & GL RR north of Mountain View and from which station?


October 1966 was the last shuttle from Wanaque-Midvale to Mt. View for transfer onto the Hoboken bound trains.


Technically, September 30, 1966 because October 3, 1966 was the first Monday after the service can. That's at least how I've interpreted it. Correct me if I am wrong. No routes without weekend service had service after September 30.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Greg » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:47 am

Roadgeek Adam wrote:
Greg wrote:
transit man wrote:Technically, September 30, 1966 because October 3, 1966 was the first Monday after the service can. That's at least how I've interpreted it. Correct me if I am wrong. No routes without weekend service had service after September 30.


Correct, I should have prefaced by saying 'by October 1966'.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby TSTOM » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:47 pm

Rather than start a new thread, I'm gonna back-up this subject title East to Montclair in the vacinity of the Walnut Street station.

Now I'm admittedly lacking much facts/details but AIR, the ERIE - maybe around 1900 - had serious plans to dig a tunnel for a new ROW West thru the mountain from Montclair over to somewhere North of Bloomfield Avenue in either Verona or Cedar Grove. This project/proposal was apparantly desired/considered for a more direct routing of the Caldwell Branch.

Now, here's the kicker. Some 40 or so years ago when I first heard this story, a fellow rail buff took me to a home - I think on either Valley Road or Upper Mountain Ave. - to view the 'proof' of the story. In the large backyard of this home ( on the side of the mountain ) was on obvious man made, large tunnel/bore somewhat hidden by brush/trees. It appeared to have been started and then filled-in a long time ago perhaps when the ERIE had a change of heart and abandoned the idea.

Soooo, is anyone else familiar with this story or has seen/visited this home/tunnel landmark ? Would obviously be cool to get some photos with the current homeowners permission. Maybe there's an ERIE book out there that might deal with this ?

Thanks.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Greg » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:40 pm

TSTOM wrote:Rather than start a new thread, I'm gonna back-up this subject title East to Montclair in the vacinity of the Walnut Street station.

Now I'm admittedly lacking much facts/details but AIR, the ERIE - maybe around 1900 - had serious plans to dig a tunnel for a new ROW West thru the mountain from Montclair over to somewhere North of Bloomfield Avenue in either Verona or Cedar Grove. This project/proposal was apparantly desired/considered for a more direct routing of the Caldwell Branch.

Now, here's the kicker. Some 40 or so years ago when I first heard this story, a fellow rail buff took me to a home - I think on either Valley Road or Upper Mountain Ave. - to view the 'proof' of the story. In the large backyard of this home ( on the side of the mountain ) was on obvious man made, large tunnel/bore somewhat hidden by brush/trees. It appeared to have been started and then filled-in a long time ago perhaps when the ERIE had a change of heart and abandoned the idea.

Soooo, is anyone else familiar with this story or has seen/visited this home/tunnel landmark ? Would obviously be cool to get some photos with the current homeowners permission. Maybe there's an ERIE book out there that might deal with this ?

Thanks.


Tom, if I remember correctly the east bore is behind the lacrosse field on Upper Mountain. I am not sure what is still visible as they redid the grounds a couple of years ago.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby TSTOM » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:25 am

Greg -

I think that field is MKA's and it's location seems logically on a feasible alignment West from Walnut Street station. So you think the bore is near the West side of it ? That's generally when the incline up and over the mountain developes.

So you also knew of this subject ? Do you recall if it was in an ERIE book ?

thanks
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Greg » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:01 am

TSTOM wrote:Greg -

I think that field is MKA's and it's location seems logically on a feasible alignment West from Walnut Street station. So you think the bore is near the West side of it ? That's generally when the incline up and over the mountain developes.

So you also knew of this subject ? Do you recall if it was in an ERIE book ?

thanks


If I recall it was behind the clubhouse. I do recall the subject on the old RR.net forum but I cannot remember what book it may have been in. The Sanborn insurance maps from the era show the alignment through Montclair and Verona and may help tracking down the exact properties in question.

Here is the link to the Montclair maps: http://library.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/aids/sanborn/essex/montclair.html. The 1907 series, plate 48 is where the line diverges, you can follow the ROW from the index page.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby TSTOM » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:03 pm

I've never seen the Sanborn's before....facinating....much, much thanks !

I now know the proposed ROW was to diverge further West from Walnut Street station than I thought....right in back of Woodman Field....and was to be a big loop back toward Bloomfield Ave.. Appears to me the ROW went right thru what is now the South endzone of that athletic field.

BTW, use Google Earth to compare/follow along with the Sanborn plates....pretty sure/obvious I see a remnant of the ROW/property line by the shape of a parking lot at 58 N. Mountain Avenue....107 years later !
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Greg » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:52 am

TSTOM wrote:I've never seen the Sanborn's before....facinating....much, much thanks !
BTW, use Google Earth to compare/follow along with the Sanborn plates....pretty sure/obvious I see a remnant of the ROW/property line by the shape of a parking lot at 58 N. Mountain Avenue....107 years later !


Yes, you can see the curvature in the property lines from the aerial views. Historic Aerials also shows the development of the ROW.

I'm would wager that most people who own the property of the former ROW have no idea that the reason the have oddly shaped parcels of land is due to this never built railroad.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby Tommy Meehan » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:08 pm

Below is an Erie RR valuation map section dating from about 1918. This shows the proposed Cutoff location. The line was originally planned in the early 1870s by the Montclair Railway (later the Montclair & Greenwood Lake, finally the New York & Greenwood Lake) as their branch between Montclair and Morristown. The plan was revived in 1891 when the Caldwell Railway was planning to build a line from Caldwell to an NY&GL connection. The preferred connection would've been at Montclair since it was much more direct than the route eventually built (to Great Notch). Both the Montclair Ry and the Caldwell Ry gave up on the idea for the same reason: the cost of boring the tunnel was beyond what they could finance.
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Re: NY & Greenwood Lake RR Passenger Question

Postby RussNelson » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:31 pm

I'm trying to track down John Montenigro, who seems to be the local (Montclair) expert on this railroad. Can't find a working phone number. Can't find an email address. Doesn't seem to be on Facebook, although I located his wife and sent her a message. This interview with him points out various bits of evidence for the railroad: http://www.northjersey.com/community-ne ... 3?page=all
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4433265 is the best routing that anybody knows of.
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