D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Discussion relating to the D&H. For more information, please visit the Bridge Line Historical Society.

Moderator: MEC407

D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:26 pm

I have a George Hockaday slide of D&H PA's facing Amtrak Turboliners in Detroit. Anyone have an idea of why D&H PA's went to Detroit??

Image
D&H PA and Amtrak Turbos in Detroit, 1975.

-otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20132
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Ken S. » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:45 pm

They were either going to or coming from MK.
User avatar
Ken S.
 
Posts: 1625
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Whiting, NJ

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Benjamin Maggi » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:48 am

MK? Is that for Morris Knudsen?

From the Bridge Line Historical Society website:

Locomotive Information:
Obtained from the Santa Fe in 1968, and painted in a blue version of the "War Bonnet" scheme, the four ALCO PA-1's were used to upgrade the power on passenger trains between Albany and Montreal and then later became part of a preservation project under the guidance of Carl B. Sterzing Jr., Chief Executive of the Delaware and Hudson.
Rebuilt by Morrison-Knudsen in 1974, to PA-4 specifications, with the newer Alco 12 cylinder Model 251 prime mover replacing their older 16 cylinder model. Along with normal freight duty, they participated in public relations ventures and railfan trips until the end of Mr. Sterzing's tenure, including a sojourn with the MBTA pulling passenger trains out of South Station Boston. They were later shipped to Mexico on a long term lease in 1978 - 17 is still in working order with the FNM (Ferrocarilles del Pacifico) and numbered DH-17.

http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/pa1_pa4.html
Benjamin L. Maggi
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
User avatar
Benjamin Maggi
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby traingeek8223 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:23 am

Definitely coming from MK. You can clearly see the new sand filler hatch and MK rebuild plate. All four PA's worked their way east after rebuilding. In the lead no less. Also note the shiny paint. George also had a pretty famous photo of #16 I believe, leading a train with Buffalo Central Terminal in the background.
Matt Giardino
ALCO Historical & Technical Society



"To journey on the rails once more, really would be fine...
Just one more chance to ride again, on the Grand Adirondack Line."
User avatar
traingeek8223
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:07 am
Location: Milepost Hobbies, Amsterdam, NY

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Mark R. » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:56 pm

I seem to recall they travelled across southern Ontario between Detroit / Windsor border to the Fort Erie / Buffalo border. That would be supported by the fact they were seen in Detroit AND Buffalo. (?)

Anyone have any pictures of them in Ontario ? I would assume they ran the old CASO main from Windsor to Fort Erie.


Mark.
User avatar
Mark R.
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Kuyahoora Valley » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm

There's also a picture in Chris McDermott's book "PA-4 Locomotive" that shows #18 alongside Turboliner 69 on August 19, 1975 in Detroit. Ironic since the PA-4s ended up being replaced by Turboliners in Feb 1977.
BBH
Kuyahoora Valley
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Virginia

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:43 am

Benjamin Maggi wrote:MK? Is that for Morris Knudsen?

From the Bridge Line Historical Society website:

Locomotive Information:
Obtained from the Santa Fe in 1968, and painted in a blue version of the "War Bonnet" scheme, the four ALCO PA-1's were used to upgrade the power on passenger trains between Albany and Montreal and then later became part of a preservation project under the guidance of Carl B. Sterzing Jr., Chief Executive of the Delaware and Hudson.
Rebuilt by Morrison-Knudsen in 1974, to PA-4 specifications, with the newer Alco 12 cylinder Model 251 prime mover replacing their older 16 cylinder model. Along with normal freight duty, they participated in public relations ventures and railfan trips until the end of Mr. Sterzing's tenure, including a sojourn with the MBTA pulling passenger trains out of South Station Boston. They were later shipped to Mexico on a long term lease in 1978 - 17 is still in working order with the FNM (Ferrocarilles del Pacifico) and numbered DH-17.

http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/pa1_pa4.html


Yes, I'm aware the D&H *had* PA's, I just was not aware that the rebuilt units were shipped through Detroit... and pulled trains all the way home!

-otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20132
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Benjamin Maggi » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:39 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
Benjamin Maggi wrote:Yes, I'm aware the D&H *had* PA's, I just was not aware that the rebuilt units were shipped through Detroit... and pulled trains all the way home! -otto-


Just adding context in case others stumble on this conversation.
Benjamin L. Maggi
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
User avatar
Benjamin Maggi
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby RSD15 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:10 am

At the time they came back there was no Lakeshore Ltd running,so Detroit thru Canada was the routing.
I don't remember if all 4 went thru Detroit or not as the Lakeshore started up(I think) either oct or nov 1975.
RSD15
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:12 pm

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby march hare » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:57 pm

At least one PA came back on the Lake Shore Limited--I have a photo of it coming down West Albany Hill trailing behind a pair of SDP40f's.

At least one of the others came back leading--Audio Visual Designs had a shot of one crossing the Mohawk River at Hoffmans in one of their slide sets (remember, this was before the return of AMT service to downtown Schenectady).

Those two I'm sure of. If I remember correctly, one of the trips came through Denver (presumably off the Pioneer/SF Zephyr). I think I remember seeing a night shot of one at DUS a few years back.
march hare
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:44 pm
Location: upstate NY

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Tadman » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Wow, great catch. That is hella cool picture. Turbos? PA's? MI Central Station?
Tadman
 
Posts: 8361
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Michigan

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby march hare » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:19 am

OK, I can confirm at least one delivery date. I've been scanning slides for archive, and yesterday turned up some shots at Rensselaer dated Nov 18 1975. PA # 17 is tucked in behind an Amtrak SDP40F, having just arrived on the newly-reinstated Lake Shore Limited. I got tipped off to its arrival by phone (I think 17 was the last one delivered) and headed trackside to watch the arrival.

As I noted earlier, I'm pretty sure that Audio Visual designs published a slide set about that time that featured a Lou Wasserman photo of a PA leading an Amtrak train across the Mohawk River at Pattersonville. My guess is that the train was the Niagara Rainbow, but that's only a guess. I never bought the slides, but have seen them on various living room walls over the years.
march hare
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:44 pm
Location: upstate NY

Re: D&H Alco PA's... in Detroit? In 1975?

Postby Champlain Division » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:22 am

Fast forward to 2014......in Stephen M.Timko's new Morning Sun Book Amtrak Power In Color there is a picture of one of the PAs at Detroit sandwiched between two Amtrak E-units with an RTG Turboliner a few tracks over to the right. The whole photo is mis-captioned as Montreal's Windsor Station in August 1975 and doesn't even mention the PA's obvious presence. This couldn't have been Windsor since the date is wrong for Turboliners on the Adirondack (1979), plus that train used Rohr Turbos; not the older RTGs. The presence of Es at Windsor in 1975 isn't impossible since the Montrealer/Washingtonian was running then, but it is highly unlikely one of D&H' newly rebuilt PA-4s would ever be coupled between that train's engines for any reason.
Richard E. "Rick" Shivik
HO D&H Champlain Division
Piedmont Division NMRA
Conyers,GA
User avatar
Champlain Division
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:30 pm
Location: Conyers, Georgia


Return to Delaware & Hudson

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests