Tank Car Heading a Passenger Consist

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Tank Car Heading a Passenger Consist

Postby Bob Sandusky » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:10 pm

On pg 7 of "Equipment of the Delaware and Hudson Railroad - Volume 1: Passenger Equipment" by Liljestand & Sweetland is a picture of RS-2 4024 heading up a passenger loca;l at Lake george, NY on 06/30/1950.

What I find interesting is that there is a tank car inserted between the motive power and the combine at thehead end of the train.

Anybody have any idea what is going on here? I can take some guesses but I'm wondering if anybody knows why the tank car is mixed in with a passenger train.

Thanks

Bob[/img]
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Postby Steve Wagner » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:04 pm

That's an example of what was called a mixed train. Another photo taken at Lake George in the early 1950's shows a train with all passenger equipment except for a Tennessee Central 40' boxcar.

Mixed trains used to be fairly common on lightly used lines. Many, unlike the D&H trains mentioned above, had many more freight cars than passenger cars; in fact, in many cases passengers had to ride in the caboose.
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Postby Steve Wagner » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:07 pm

I've just found three sets of mixed trains listed as such in the Delaware & Hudson's public passenger train timetable effective September 25, 1938.

The pair between Fort Edward and Lake George via Glens Falls had the shortest runs by far: just 14.5 miles each way. Train 161 left Fort Edward at 9:05 a.m., arriving at Lake George at 9:50. As Train 162, it left Lake George at 10.00 a.m., arriving at Fort Edward at 10:40. Obviously, the railroad didn't expect it to do much switching at Lake George! These trains were scheduled to allow passengers to make connections to and from Albany and New York on main line trains.

The trains on the Adirondack Branch traveled 57.1 miles each way. Train 181 was due out of Saratoga Springs at 8:40 a.m. -- twenty minutes after #1 from New York and Albany had arrived. After six intermediate stops it was scheduled into North Creek at 11:40 a.m. Train 182 left North Creek at 1:25 p.m., reaching Saratoga Springs at 4:20, in time for travelers to transfer to a southbound local from Whitehall to Albany, connecting to New York.

One mixed train each day also served the former Chateaugay Railroad, 83 miles each way. Train 82 departed Plattsburgh at 6:40 a.m., making up to ten stops before arriving in Lake Placid at 10:50. The return train, #81, left an hour later , arriving at Plattsburgh at 4:15. A traveler from New York (perhaps bound, with a guard, for the state prison at Dannemora) could catch the mixed at Plattsburgh, but anyone arriving inn Plattsburgh at 4:15 p.m. would have had a very long wait for a southbound, since none was supposed to arrive until 10:42 p.m.

Finally, southbound #!8 was carded as a mixed train for its 113.3 mile run from Rouses Point to Whitehall, leaving at 7:05, making up to 14 intermediate stops and arriving at 2:20, allowing travelers to catch the Laurentian at 2:25 or an all-stops local at 3:20. It would be interesting to figure out whether this train collected milk cans and/or milk tank cars. There is no northbound train on the main line listed as mixed.
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Postby Steve Wagner » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:10 pm

Jim Shaughnessy has kindly informed me that D&H mixed train #18 did carry milk cars; he took a photo of this in 1952 that has been published in the Bridge Line Historical Society Bulletin.

He also pointed out that during the cold months steam-heated passenger cars in mixed trains would be located next to the locomotive, so that the steam heat line could reach them. But (presumably because the engine sometimes had to uncouple from the passenger cars to switch freight cars) many passenger cars used in mixed trains had stoves in them.

Jim also noted that most passenger cars on mixed trains were combines (baggage-coaches). The D&H had several such cars with wood bodies and shallow arched roofs. I've seen a photo including a corner of one at Fort Edward showing that it was painted in the two-tone gray scheme. D&H combine 102 (the most recent of several numbers it wore) at North Conway, NH on the Conway Scenic Railroad also shows traces of two-tone gray; unfortunately, it has been in rough shape for several years. (It was the first car the CSRR acquired.) It carried prisoners to Dannemora, among other passengers.
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Thanks For the reply's Guys

Postby Bob Sandusky » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:15 am

I knew about mixed trains I just wasn't aware that the D&H used them also. The other issue in my mind is a passenger train with 3 coaches like this one seems to me to be a little bit more than a low traffic line that could be serviced by a combine. It was also the first picture I had scene of a mixed D&H that wasn't a milk car

Milk cars on passenger trains as head end cars I knew about because of their value as express traffic.

Based on what you've said this is probably Train #161 which is on the schedule as a mixed train.

Thought it might be something I wanted to try on my layout but I'm A&S not Champlain Valley.

Thanks again.

Bob
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Postby pennsy » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:53 am

Additional reasons why you would have a tank car, or cars, inserted before the passenger cars. Interesting to note that there are still some passenger cars around that require steam for heating during the winter months. Obviously they will make you swelter during the summer months with no air conditioning. Most passenger cars these days have air conditioning and electrical heating, with direct hook ups for electrical power to the engine. The EMD F-59PHI has an extra diesel engine that is used to provide this electrical power.

Tank cars are used to carry additional water for the engine, a steamer. Where possible the steamer will also carry an old tender modified to carry extra water. However, should the engine have to travel a great distance to its next watering hole, a tank car with extra water is needed. #3985 carries two extra tenders with water, with UP markings on them. But if she is going cross country, additional tank cars would be used.
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Postby Bob Sandusky » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:17 pm

pennsy wrote:Additional reasons why you would have a tank car, or cars, inserted before the passenger cars. Interesting to note that there are still some passenger cars around that require steam for heating during the winter months. Obviously they will make you swelter during the summer months with no air conditioning. Most passenger cars these days have air conditioning and electrical heating, with direct hook ups for electrical power to the engine. The EMD F-59PHI has an extra diesel engine that is used to provide this electrical power.

Tank cars are used to carry additional water for the engine, a steamer. Where possible the steamer will also carry an old tender modified to carry extra water. However, should the engine have to travel a great distance to its next watering hole, a tank car with extra water is needed. #3985 carries two extra tenders with water, with UP markings on them. But if she is going cross country, additional tank cars would be used.


that makes sense on a cross country or long distance route but not here on the D&H. There just isn't that much distance that the trains run that they might run out of water. The whole northern route from Albany to Montreal is only slightly over 200 miles.

Especiallt for a steamer. But even when we were using steamers the major yards weren't that far apart. Didn't have to get across the great plains like western trains did ... lol
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Re: Tank Car Heading a Passenger Consist

Postby Engineer Spike » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:12 pm

One conductor that I worked with said that there was a passenger job out of Ft. Edward. I think that he talked about cutting either a mail car, or a through coach off of a mainline train. They would go to Lake George, head pin, get out of passenger uniforms, and switch Glens Falls. Later they would get dressed in uniforms again, nad bring the passengers back to Ft. Edward.
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