Photos of brown/red twin hoppers from the 1970s?

[lvrr325]

Anyone know where I can find decent pictures of the brown scheme on 34' twin hoppers? it must be some kind of interim between black with the name spelled out (as delivered and repainted into the 1960s) and black with simple yellow lettering (seen fresh roughly 1975), cars are a tuscan or box car red color with white lettering in a plain font. Well, what's left of it, in most photos the cars have huge rusted patches on the sides.

Examples, LV In Color V5 page 77, top photo, LV In Color V6 page 39, bottom photo, two of the five or so in the shot are brown, three may be black with the paint gone.

There aren't any up at Railroad Picture Archives or the George Elwood page, I did find examples of before and after including the blue glass recycling cars but none of these. I don't have the Color Guide for freight and passenger equipment - could there be a shot in that?

Cars are basic smooth side 2-bay hoppers -

[Steve Wagner]

Yes, there are photos of cars in this scheme in Morning Sun Books' D&H Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment.

On page 70 is a photo from the collection of the late Jim Odell (one of the book's co-authors and a stalwart of the Bridge Line Historical Society, which cooperated in the production of the book) of no fewer than 15 of them ready to be sent to the D&H from Bethlehem Steel's Johnstown, PA plant, which had rebuilt them in 1967. The caption states that 250 cars were part of that program: D&H 9401-9650. On the same page is a photo of the 9522 in 1974, with most of the red paint obscured by black. On page 74 a photo shows one red car with so much rust on its sides that its number can't be seen, plus 9471 as repainted by the D&H's car shop at Oneonta in 1971: also oxide red, but with a billboard road name as first used c. 1954-1956.

Two mineral products were shipped from the NL Industries (originally National Lead Company) plant at Tahawus. Most cars carried ilmenite (titanium ore) to processing plants in northern New Jersey and in Missouri. This was used to produce not just titanium metal but also titanium dioxide, a white pigment that NL used in Dutch Boy paint. The irony is that ilmenite itself is VERY black and made the cars that carried it very dirty very quickly. I visited the mine in 1971 with my fiancee (to whom I'm still married). One of her aunts owned anI have inn in Newcomb, the closest settlement on a numbered state highway. In the laundry across the street were big signs: NO MINE CLOTHES. I need to dig out a slide I had her take showing me next to two yellow ribbed twin hoppers (built by Bethlehem for the D&H in the 1960's, clearly labeled "ilmenite loading only"), one clean and the other unbelievably dirty. What a contrast! Decades later I corresponded with a man who worked at the NL plant in New Jersey. The crew at the diner he often visited were mystified by his appearance. They were used to seeing workers in blackened clothes who worked at the start of the production line and ones covered in white from the other end of it. He worked sometimes at one end, sometimes at the other.

Iron ore (magnetite, I think) was separated at the Tahawus plant, sintered, and shipped in open hopper cars. The heat burned the paint off the sides of the cars, which became rusty. I'm not sure where it went, but when the shipments started when the line was extended from North Creek to Tahawus (or Sanford Lake) during World War II, it probably went to Republic Steel in South Troy, NY. These cars were outnumbered by the ones carrying ilmenite. For a long time older steel hoppers were used to carry the sinter. The D&H bought some new. larger cars and gave them minimal paint, with the most essential lettering on separate steel panels welded to their ribs. (The ilmenite hoppers had similar panels though their paint didn't burn off. Guilford transferred many of these cars to the Maine Central before letting the D&H go bankrupt; many are still in non-revenue service and the original lettering on some is still visible under decades of grime.)

HO models of the oxide red cars as done by Bethlehem in 1967 have been done by two firms. Decades ago Third Rail Graphics decorated three Athearn cars. Atlas has produced models with even nicer lettering, with the gaps in the letters from the stenciling! A new Atlas HO run including two single cars and a three-pack with new car numbers is expected to arrive this quarter, plus, for the first time, similar cars in Nn scale.

[lvrr325]

I was talking to Accurail about a quote for a run of them, and they want full retail to do it, so there's no way to sell off the extras to pay for a few for myself.

Plus the reply talked about a black car with white lettering after I asked about a black car with yellow lettering, so my confidence level in them getting it correct was lowered somewhat.

[Steve Wagner]

As to the D&H offset twin hoppers the D&H painted black with yellow graphics (no name, but solid yellow shield herald) in 1974, Athearn released a single car and two four-packs last month; their website lists them as still in stock. They're now marketed as part of Athearn's Roundhouse line, not to be confused with the old Model Die Casting Roundhouse line that Athearn bought some years back. The cars are essentially identical with the blue box kits and have a level of detail similar to the Atlas cars (less finely detailed than Kadee's more expensive models).

[johnpbarlow]

I'm not sure these two photos depict one of the D&H hoppers being discussed here but I caught this "B&M" (ahem) 2 bay hopper cars that D&H used for hauling Ilmenite/magnetite out of Tahawus in Pan Am train ED8 at Gardner this past Sunday 2/26/17. I think Pan Am employs these cars in company service such as on those few occasions where they perform track maintenance (ballast hauling/tie debris clean-up). This cars is adorned by the standard font that Pan Am often applies to its cars of lesser value.

[Steve Wagner]

John, thanks for posting the photos. This is one of the hoppers that Bethlehem Steel built for the D&H in the 1960's specifically for hauling ilmenite. That stuff is so heavy that a small pile over each hopper made a full load. I think the D&H tended to use older twin hoppers for hauling the hot sintered magnetite.

Guilford took quite a few of these cars away from the D&H before letting it go bankrupt. It's quite unusual to see one with B&M markings; all or nearly all I've seen first hand have similarly crude MEC markings. The car in the photos you posted seems never to have lost its original yellow paint; it's just covered over with a lot of crud. As usual, the original color shows most clearly on the outermost surface of the ribs (true also for the big 4750 cu. ft. ribbed three-bay covered hoppers Pullman-Standard built for the D&H in 1974, many of which still have their original bright red paint, covered with a lot of dirt except on the ribs).

The original theme of this thread was offset twin hoppers built by Bethlehem for the D&H starting in 1951 (originally painted black with smallish white Roman road name and circular Bridge Line herald, repainted black with billboard Roman road name starting in the mid-1950's), many of which Bethlehem rebuilt for the D&H in 19674, painting them dark oxide red with sans serif road name.

[EDFLD Bill]

Guilford took quite a few of these cars away from the D&H before letting it go bankrupt. It's quite unusual to see one with B&M markings; all or nearly all I've seen first hand have similarly crude MEC markings. The car in the photos you posted seems never to have lost its original yellow paint; it's just covered over with a lot of crud. As usual, the original color shows most clearly on the outermost surface of the ribs (true also for the big 4750 cu. ft. ribbed three-bay covered hoppers Pullman-Standard built for the D&H in 1974, many of which still have their original bright red paint, covered with a lot of dirt except on the ribs).

Guilford transfered several hundred D&H cars to MEC & B&M starting in 1986 to recover debt owed to MEC & B&M.

[Engineer Spike]

The two bay cars posted above were often used by Guilford, on the Waterbury branch. At first, they were still lettered for D&H. After D&H was placed into bankruptcy, they were relettered with B&M reporting marks.

In Plainville was a traprock quarry. They used to spot about 5-7 car cuts. This stone was shipped to Waterbury, to an asphalt plant. The plant was south of the yard, on the old Highland, which had run towards Danbury.

[EDFLD Bill]

The two bay cars posted above were often used by Guilford, on the Waterbury branch. At first, they were still lettered for D&H. After D&H was placed into bankruptcy, they were relettered with B&M reporting marks.

In Plainville was a traprock quarry. They used to spot about 5-7 car cuts. This stone was shipped to Waterbury, to an asphalt plant. The plant was south of the yard, on the old Highland, which had run towards Danbury.

Relettering of said cars began in 1987 and continued into 1990. The D&H Bankruptcy did "speed up" the relettering......

Those cars used in CT, were leased to Tilcon-Connecticut until they bought their own cars (from CN) in the mid-90's.

[Mem-160]

How did the D&H owe debt to MEC & B&M? I know the MEC also ended up with a bunch of the pulpwood cars and the U23Bs

[EDFLD Bill]

How did the D&H owe debt to MEC & B&M? I know the MEC also ended up with a bunch of the pulpwood cars and the U23Bs

Well, the pulpwood car deal was well before Guilford. The U23B deal was set up by Guilford. The D&H needed money in order to keep operating until Guilford bought it, so they arranged to transfer the units to MEC. As for all the other assets that were transferred during 1984-1988, in short, were a consequence of the $70 some odd million in D&H debt that Guilford assumed when they purchased it for a mere $500,000. The D&H had very high labor costs and quite regularly could't pay its obligations so MEC & B&M paid instead. This included equipment trusts and leases as well.