UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Discussion relating to The Chicago & North Western, the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific, the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad (Milwaukee Road), including mergers, acquisitions, and abandonments.

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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby CPF363 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:39 pm

Of the routes between Chicago and Omaha, which routes were double track? There have been postings online that state the RI was single track west of W. Liberty, IA, but what about the others. C&NW had a second track that was removed later, but what about MILW and CB&Q?

Could Rock Island and MILW in the late 1970s or early 1980s have created a decent double track combined main line between Chicago and Omaha using the best portions of each of their routes and connected them somehow using connecting lines owned by each company? MILW connected with RI at Des Moines from the west.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby GWoodle » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:33 pm

If you want to start in the 1950's when UP shifted their LD passenger trains from C&NW to MILW, a case could be made for rolling freight from there into Bensenvile. There could have been other track built in the expansion of O'Hare to route trains into C&NW Proviso or other yards. Limiting this move is the west expansion of MILW to Washington. I doubt if UP would feed MILW there.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby 57A26 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:53 pm

CPF363 wrote:Of the routes between Chicago and Omaha, which routes were double track? There have been postings online that state the RI was single track west of W. Liberty, IA, but what about the others. C&NW had a second track that was removed later, but what about MILW and CB&Q?

Could Rock Island and MILW in the late 1970s or early 1980s have created a decent double track combined main line between Chicago and Omaha using the best portions of each of their routes and connected them somehow using connecting lines owned by each company? MILW connected with RI at Des Moines from the west.


The CNW was the only one that ever was completely double tracked between Chicago and Council Bluffs/Omaha. The RI was double tracked Chicago to Iowa City, cut back to West Liberty in the early 1960s. The RI also had a short section around the Des Moines area. The MILW at one time was double tracked Chicago to Manila, IA (about 60 miles or so northeast of Council Bluffs and a junction with the line to Sioux City) after the mainline was rebuilt (and relocated in places) in the early 20th century. Over time starting in the 1930s, the second track was taken up in many places. I'm a bit more hazy on the CB&Q, but I think there were some sections that have always been (has opposed to a second track removed) single track in western Iowa.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby CPF363 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:15 pm

Here is something related to the shift of the passenger traffic on to the MILW.

http://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/PostWa ... 131958.pdf
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby vermontanan » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:45 pm

CPF363 wrote:Here is something related to the shift of the passenger traffic on to the MILW.

http://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/PostWa ... 131958.pdf


The link to this story shows one of the great miscalculations in American railroading. The Milwaukee spent all this money to add infrastructure to handle the 5 run-through passenger trains to the UP, which was down to only two such trains by 1960. And the long sought-after corresponding freight traffic never materialized. It's interesting the Milwaukee spent all this money on its Chicago-Omaha route while its Pacific Extension continued to have almost no CTC, wasn't even protected with ABS all the way, and had no trackside warning detectors so commonplace on the competition. In the end, with all the money spent, both the Omaha line and Pacific Extension perished.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby CPF363 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:54 pm

vermontanan wrote:
CPF363 wrote:Here is something related to the shift of the passenger traffic on to the MILW.

http://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/PostWa ... 131958.pdf


The link to this story shows one of the great miscalculations in American railroading. The Milwaukee spent all this money to add infrastructure to handle the 5 run-through passenger trains to the UP, which was down to only two such trains by 1960. And the long sought-after corresponding freight traffic never materialized. It's interesting the Milwaukee spent all this money on its Chicago-Omaha route while its Pacific Extension continued to have almost no CTC, wasn't even protected with ABS all the way, and had no trackside warning detectors so commonplace on the competition. In the end, with all the money spent, both the Omaha line and Pacific Extension perished.

Maybe MILW management made the determination that they ultimately could not sustain the line to Seattle and decided to work out a haulage agreement for their Chicago-Seattle freight with the UP. MILW would move their freight from Chicago to Omaha, then UP from Omaha to Portland and MILW taking the freight the rest of the way to the Port of Seattle. They would still get the line haul but pay UP a fee to haul their cars between Omaha and Portland. MILW might have anticipated that if the haulage route worked out, UP would route some or all of their Chicago bound traffic via the MILW east of Omaha.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby mtuandrew » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:00 pm

CPF363 wrote:Maybe MILW management made the determination that they ultimately could not sustain the line to Seattle and decided to work out a haulage agreement for their Chicago-Seattle freight with the UP. MILW would move their freight from Chicago to Omaha, then UP from Omaha to Portland and MILW taking the freight the rest of the way to the Port of Seattle. They would still get the line haul but pay UP a fee to haul their cars between Omaha and Portland. MILW might have anticipated that if the haulage route worked out, UP would route some or all of their Chicago bound traffic via the MILW east of Omaha.

Good theory, except that the MILW didn't have rights Portland-Seattle for many more years (following the BN merger.) The UP did, and wouldn't have needed the MILW's help except to access a few terminal industries in the Pacific Northwest.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby Engineer Spike » Tue May 05, 2015 3:31 am

The question was asked but not answered, when was Milwaukee's Omaha line abandoned?
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby mtuandrew » Tue May 05, 2015 11:38 am

Engineer Spike wrote:The question was asked but not answered, when was Milwaukee's Omaha line abandoned?

The line past Green Island, IA never made it into The Milwaukee Road from the Chicago Milwaukee Corporation, so... 1980, I guess. I don't know when it was actually torn out though, since BN and CNW both resurrected and operated (operate?) large portions.
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Re: UP Overhead Traffic Shift Away From C&NW

Postby CPF363 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:17 am

Of all of the traffic coming off of the Union Pacific in the 1960s, what percentage of it went to to the CB&Q, Rock Island, C&NW, MILW, Illinois Central or the Wabash? What was the spread in the 1970s following the BN merger?
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