ES23B; FDL & GEVO dimensions; repower options?

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ES23B; FDL & GEVO dimensions; repower options?

Postby MEC407 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:31 pm

In another thread, "v8interceptor" provided a link to a presentation regarding GE's plans for future locomotives. Included in that presentation is a brief mention of a new locomotive called the ES23B.

Here is the link:

http://www.fasterfreightcleanerair.com/ ... Lawson.pdf

The ES23B info is on page 10.

To summarize, the diagram of the locomotive appears similar to the old B32-8, but shows the new I-6 GEVO inside. It also mentions that this locomotive could be built new or as part of a "modernization" (rebuild) kit.
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby tomjohn » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:33 am

Are there any photo's and Drawings yet, or is this new GE locomotive still in the planning department at General Electric? I sure would like to see it . Please let me know as time will allow...

Tom
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby MEC407 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:39 am

Yes, click on the link I posted above, and then scroll to page 10 where you will see a drawing. It isn't very big or very clear and it may not even be what the real units will look like, but it's the only one I've seen thus far.
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby tomjohn » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:55 pm

I was actually thinking along the lines of drawings that one sees in the model railroad magazines such as Railroad Model Craftsman, Model Railroader and other model railway publications from time to time,that is if GE will allow it.

Tom
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby ekb » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:26 pm

Interesting stuff on the new ES23DC. Any idea how long it would take for GE to build this loco and bring it to market?
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby v8interceptor » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:48 pm

ekb wrote:Interesting stuff on the new ES23DC. Any idea how long it would take for GE to build this loco and bring it to market?

I would imagine that that would depend on whether the RR ordering it wants an all new locomotive or wants to use an older "core" (retired Dash 7 for instance)as a starting point...From what I've read a remanufacturing kit is ready now.
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby ekb » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:08 am

I just heard that GETS has shelved most of their new programs because of the financial crunch that the entire company's facing....is this true??
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby tomjohn » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:19 am

Has there been anything else reported about this loco or has GE considered it a dead topic for the moment? I would like an update .

Tom
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby v8interceptor » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:51 pm

tomjohn wrote:Has there been anything else reported about this loco or has GE considered it a dead topic for the moment? I would like an update .

Tom

I think that would have to wait until there is an order but everything I have read seems to indicate that GE is more interested in marketing the Inline EVO as a repowering package (just as EMD is doing with the ECO 8-710 program) than they are in building brand new 4 axle locomotives...
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Re: GE ES23B

Postby RickRackstop » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:15 am

GE has been marketing the inline 6 and 8 cylinder engines as marine propulsion just as the market collapses. Competition in the 2000 hp part of the market has been extremely intense with Cummins and CAT high speed engines making inroads. EMD who has dominated in this market has the highest price per horsepower but still has loyal customers. It comes down to operating at 90% or greater load factor. So for GE to make much of a dent they'll probably have to give them away or sell their version of the 645.
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FDL & GEVO engine dimensions; repower options?

Postby MEC407 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:49 am

Does anyone have basic dimensions (length, width, height, weight) for typical/average GEVO-12, FDL-12, and FDL-16 engines?
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Re: GEVO-12, FDL-12, and FDL-16 engine dimensions

Postby Allen Hazen » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:57 pm

MEC407--
Definitely too big to re-engine a U18B, if that's what you have in mind! (Grin!)
I have a 2003 ASME paper (by two GETS people and two from FEV, the engine engineering company GE apparently consulted with in designing the GEVO) about the GEVO engine and the design thinking behind it which says that the GEVO 12 (250mm x 320 mm cylinders) was 2683 mm high, 1598 mm wide, and 4196 mm long, weighing 19,500 kg.
Paper is in .pdf format. Should I e-mail you a copy?
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Re: GEVO-12, FDL-12, and FDL-16 engine dimensions

Postby Allen Hazen » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:14 pm

The ASME article mentioned above is also available in the "Files" of the LocoNotes Yahoo Group. Also includes some drawings, which may be helpful in figuring out what the dimensions mean: height, for example, is sensitive to precise turbocharger and turbocharger mounting details, so the 12 or 16 cylinder FDL in GE export locomotives, by virtue of diffferent turbo installation, is not as tall as the FDL engines in domestic GE. (Though I think the 8 cylinder FDL used in U18B may have been of export height.)
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Re: GEVO-12, FDL-12, and FDL-16 engine dimensions

Postby GEVO » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:41 am

If you go to the GE Transportation website, look under Marine Engines. Under V250 you can see the 12 and 16 cyl Evo engines, under V228 you can see the 8, 12, and 16 cyl FDL engines. Click on the pdf file for the rough sizing specs and a small drawing. The only real sizing difference between these and the locomotive dimensions is the oil pan which is deeper on the marine. On the EVO engines, the 12 cyl locomotive version will only have 1 turbo and will not have the intercoolers built into the forward end as they are located on the locomotive itself. The 16 cyl marine pictured in the brochure is actually a locomotive engine, probably for CSX or China. The Marines have explosion proof doors on the frame and the V pan, both missing from the picture.

Skamec also has some dimensional info including the new Inline engines. They are also marine drawings but again, the only real difference is the oil pan which is deeper.

As to the exports being lower in height, that is due to the piping on top of the intercoolers and the outlet header being lower mainly to clear a muffler that some countries require. All the FDL turbos mount the same but some are slightly smaller in size on the lower hp units. The 8 cyl you are refering to is lower due to shorter intercoolers and a smaller turbo. But the actual turbo mounting is the same.
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Re: GEVO-12, FDL-12, and FDL-16 engine dimensions

Postby MEC407 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:00 am

Thanks, Allen and GEVO! Very helpful.
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