GE PowerHaul Locomotives

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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby v8interceptor » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:32 pm

MEC407 wrote:
Allen Hazen wrote:Has anyone seen any comparison between the Powerhaul and GEVO engines on the fuel efficiency front?


I've been wondering the same thing. Obviously it wouldn't be fair to do a straight comparison of a 4500 HP engine against a 3800 HP engine, but it would be very interesting to see how much fuel each engine uses per unit of horsepower created. If that makes sense. I'm operating sans caffeine this morning.

Another option would be to compare the two locomotives (ES44AC and PH37ACi) in terms of tractive effort in relation to fuel consumption.

Isn't it more like 3.450HP for the powerhaul Vs. 4400 for the Evolution series? Or 3,750 versus 4,600 if you measure it at the cranckshaft?
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:37 pm

The complete locomotive is rated at 3700 HP for traction; I assumed the total output of the engine was a bit higher, so I wrote 3800 HP.
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby v8interceptor » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:24 pm

MEC407 wrote:The complete locomotive is rated at 3700 HP for traction; I assumed the total output of the engine was a bit higher, so I wrote 3800 HP.

The ENGINE rating of the Jenbacher P616 prime mover is 3,690 HP, the power available for traction is about 3,450 HP.
GE's website specifically mentions engine output.

http://www.getransportation.com/rail/ra ... otive.html
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/sing ... -show.html
Note that the Railway Gazette article specifically mentions "Gross Horsepower"
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:40 pm

Forgive me, maybe I'm blind, but where are you finding that 3,450 number? I searched the links you gave, along with the PDF brochure on GE's site, and I can't find that number in any of them.
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby Allen Hazen » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm

GE's booklet (V8Interceptor's second link) gives power as 2750 kw... but I don't see any indication of whether this is engine brake horsepower, UIC locomotive horsepower, American-style input-to-traction-generator horsepower or...

On the fuel efficiency question, the booklet gives 192 g/kwh as full load fuel consumption (the other article says 197), but I haven't been able to find a figure for the GEVO engine to compare this with.
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:48 am

"Rail.co" has an interesting article on the design, development, and production of the PowerHaul:

http://www.rail.co/2011/04/28/freightli ... rtnership/
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby v8interceptor » Tue May 17, 2011 11:24 am

Allen Hazen wrote:GE's booklet (V8Interceptor's second link) gives power as 2750 kw... but I don't see any indication of whether this is engine brake horsepower, UIC locomotive horsepower, American-style input-to-traction-generator horsepower or...

On the fuel efficiency question, the booklet gives 192 g/kwh as full load fuel consumption (the other article says 197), but I haven't been able to find a figure for the GEVO engine to compare this with.

How could "Gross horsepower" refer to the American style of rating a locomotive? It is not common in North American practice to rate a locomotive for marketing purposes by prime mover gross horsepower, but it is common in other parts of the world..
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:12 pm

Narrow gauge version of the PowerHaul series coming soon to Australia!

From Railway Gazette International:

Railway Gazette International wrote:GE Transportation and Australian manufacturing partner UGL Ltd officially announced plans for a 1 067 mm gauge version of the PowerHaul Series locomotive at AusRail Plus in Brisbane on November 22.

The 3 700 hp PH37ACmai is intended for heavy haul and fast freight operations on the narrow-gauge networks in Queensland and Western Australia.

According to UGL, it will be 'somewhat different in appearance' to the locomotives GE Transportation has delivered to PowerHaul launch customer Freightliner in the UK, but the underlying technology will be the same.
...
'We have undertaken significant investment, along with GE, to develop a narrow-gauge locomotive product that represents a considerable advancement in locomotive power technology', said UGL Managing Director & CEO Richard Leupen. 'The PowerHaul Series locomotive will provide customers with substantial improvements in haulage capability, emissions, fuel efficiency, power and reliability.'


Read more at: http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/s ... 11/11.html
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:32 pm

From International Railway Journal:

International Railway Journal wrote:While the bodyshell is different, the technology used in the PH37ACmai, which will be built by UGL in Australia, is the same as the Class 70 supplied by GE to Freightliner, Britain.
...
The PowerHaul Series is the second locomotive developed jointly by UGL and GE for the Australian market. Since 2008, UGL and GE have delivered nearly 70 Evolution Series locomotives to Rio Tinto Iron Ore, which recently ordered an additional 13 units for its heavy-haul iron-ore operations in the Pilbara region of Western Australia.


Read more at: http://www.railjournal.com/newsflash/ug ... -1396.html
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:09 am

From Rail.co:

Rail.co wrote:UGL Limited and GE Transportation, a unit of General Electric Company, today introduced its new PowerHaul Series locomotive (PH37ACmai) at AusRail Plus 2011 in Brisbane, Australia.

AusRail is the largest rail exhibition in the southern hemisphere attracting more than 4,000 attendees and over 300 exhibitors.

The 3700HP AC locomotive is designed to be UGL and GE’s most fuel-efficient and emissions capable diesel-electric freight locomotive.


Read more at: http://www.rail.co/2011/11/24/ugl-ge-tr ... ocomotive/
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby Allen Hazen » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:05 am

MEC407--
Thanks for the news and links!
The cab designs in the artwork are similar to those used on most recent locomotive classes in Oz, both EMD based and GE based. (UGL-- United Group Limited-- is the corporate successor of long-time Australian GE licensee Goninan. Previous UGL/GE locomotives, with FDL-12 engines, for 3'6" gauge include the P-class for Western Australia and the 2800 class for Queensland.)

British railways, though standard gauge, have very small loading gauges and light axle-weight limits, so a British design is likely to be an obvious starting point if you want to design a large locomotive for narrow gauge. Queensland Railways, in particular, has a large and intensively used network (long trains of export coal powered by several diesel units, for example), making it an obvious candidate for such a locomotive.

The Australian government has recently enacted a carbon tax (mentioned in one of the articles you linked to)-- usual moaning and whining from right-wing politicians about how any sort of environmental regulation is a job-killer, but here we see the other side: by putting a price on the "externalities" of emissions, a carbon tax looks likely to stimulate new investment in more efficient locomotives!
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby MEC407 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:35 pm

GE PowerHaul demo at Innotrans 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmk40NV_EvE
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Re: GE PowerHaul Locomotives

Postby Irongrave » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:57 pm

on the subject of PowerHaul's. The freighliner that was damaged during shipment is currently being rebuilt in Erie to become a possible demo unit.
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