105T in Chile

Discussion of General Electric locomotive technology. Current official information can be found here: www.getransportation.com.

Moderators: AMTK84, MEC407

105T in Chile

Postby renrut44 » Thu May 19, 2016 7:18 pm

In April/May 1954 GE delivered 12 105T to the Chilean State Railways, powered by Alco 12-244E 31891-31902

Renumbered 16.001 to .012, at least 5 still maintained and see occasional service on tourist specials and for infrastructure use

There are indications that repowered with Alco 251

This photo on Facebook https://scontent.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=57DB38E4

Can anyone ID the Engine?
renrut44
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:26 am

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby Pneudyne » Fri May 20, 2016 12:03 am

It looks like an Alco 12-251 to me eye.

It also appears that the original GT581 main generator and its triple auxiliaries – one exciter and two auxiliary generators - have been retained. One of the auxiliaries was used to power the traction motor blowers and possibly the cooling fan. The earlier shovel-noses had motor-driven cooling fans, but I have a vague notion that the Chilean broad gauge units, or at least the later of the two batches, might have had shaft-driven fans, but that needs to be verified. The originals had 17MG6 governors and Amplidyne excitation.

The Chilean broad-gauge shovel-noses also had trucks with an unusual swing motion arrangement, also used on the Brasilian 110-ton road switchers and the Indonesian double-ended triple-truck shovel-noses. Earlier shovel-noses had rigid-bolster trucks.

It’s a pity that these early GE exports – which were Alco-engined GEs, not Alco-GEs – have escaped the notice of the railfan publishing industry.

Cheers,
Pneudyne
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby renrut44 » Fri May 20, 2016 1:49 am

Google Image search using "locomotora chile D16000"
https://www.google.com/search?site=imgh ... AriLH7gjNo

60+ photos
renrut44
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:26 am

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby NorthWest » Fri May 20, 2016 10:56 pm

I've always been fascinated by the GE shovelnoses. They came in a variety of configurations and are beautiful in their own way. It is also interesting that ALCO was willing to supply components at the same time as their competing DL500 series. With the Alco-GE agreement, they may not have had a choice.

I second the call for more press; the WP&Y locomotives seem to be the only ones well known in the US.
User avatar
NorthWest
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby Allen Hazen » Sat May 21, 2016 9:27 pm

Tangential to topic, but…
Pneudyne, do you know how the running gear of the Indonesian 3-truck units worked? Did the centre truck have provision for side-play? (Yes, I'm still fretting about the abortive GE/Alco/Nelseco/New York Central unit from the 1920s.)
Allen Hazen
 
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby Pneudyne » Sat May 21, 2016 11:44 pm

NorthWest wrote:It is also interesting that ALCO was willing to supply components at the same time as their competing DL500 series. With the Alco-GE agreement, they may not have had a choice.


That’s an interesting issue that I have never seen addressed in anything that I have read.

Empirically one would deduce that when the Alco-GE agreement was in operation, GE was still free to pursue international locomotive business with its own designs, with powerplants of its own or its customers’ choosing. In practice it used either Cooper-Bessemer or Alco engines for the road locomotive designs. Whether Alco had any obligation to supply its powerplants to GE for this purpose is unknown. But if not, if would have had little reason not to supply given that in most cases, it was not otherwise going to get a share of the international business on offer. Some overseas railroads, such as those in Brasil and Uruguay, bought both Alco-GE and GE locomotives more-or-less concurrently. Their Alco-GE locomotives were essentially domestic designs. Possibly in export situations where Alco-GE domestic models either fitted or reasonably could be made to fit the requirements, GE might have been constrained from making an independent offer.

The DL500, announced mid-1953, actually started life as an Alco-GE model. But the split between Alco and GE happened just a few months later, so that was academic, and all production was under the Alco banner. Had the split not happened then, perhaps GE would have chosen to or would have had to phase out those shovel-nose models that were comparable to the DL500, that is the Alco 12-244 powered standard and broad gauge models. But there may still have been a place for the lighter and more-compact-in-profile Cape/metre gauge variants, as the DL500, although nominally available for those gauges, was probably a bit too heavy and a bit too high and wide for some applications. In the weight and profile departments, GE got it right with its export U18C model of 1956. With its earlier independent experience, it really had had a head-start in the CMT gauge world when compared with Alco and EMD, and so knew what the constraints were.

After the split, supplying - or not as the case may be - engines to GE was probably simply a business decision for Alco.

Allen Hazen wrote:Tangential to topic, but…
Pneudyne, do you know how the running gear of the Indonesian 3-truck units worked? Did the centre truck have provision for side-play? (Yes, I'm still fretting about the abortive GE/Alco/Nelseco/New York Central unit from the 1920s.)


It must have done, otherwise what was rather a long locomotive would never have gotten around the curves. But how it was done I don’t know. From the photographic evidence, the centre truck was of GE’s slab-framed design, outside equalized, with cutouts for the coil primary springs and the elliptical bolster springs. The presence of the latter strongly suggests that the bolster was of the swing motion type, perhaps arranged to provide significantly more lateral motion than was usually the case.


Cheers,
Pneudyne
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand

Re: 105T in Chile

Postby NorthWest » Sun May 22, 2016 11:20 am

Thanks for the thoughts.
As you are no doubt aware, the DL500 series was based off of DL212/FCA-3 units delivered to Pakistan in 1951-53 which were ALCO-GEs.
I agree that it would have been a business decision- if one can't get paid for the whole locomotive, one is better off getting paid for part of it.

What really amazes me about the shovelnoses is that for what essentially amounts to a 'platform' each order was essentially unique.
User avatar
NorthWest
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 pm


Return to General Electric

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest