Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:46 pm

Almost a year ago, while sitting in my bunk one night in the barracks at Bagram Airfield I was doing online research in some of the photo archives when I noticed an uncanny match between two photos taken decades apart. When I realized the potential significance I was surprised to say the least. In the interests of preserving a potentially significant find I chose not to post this information for some time until I could consult with some of the experts in Maine who have worked with these cars. That having been done I am very happy to announce the following tentative addition to the list of Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment.

MEC #10, Parlor-Buffet, Spruce

Here is a picture of the car as baggage MEC #336. This conversion appears to have been widely reported and is considered reliable information. I believe that the car is sitting in Thorndike at the former B&ML and is the ex-MoW car currently numbered MEC #948. By sheer coincidence the current picture is taken from a nearly identical angle as the photograph depicting MEC #336.

Here is a list of spotting features that I believe confirm the car's identity when using the picture of MEC #336 for comparison.

Aside from car body style (heavyweight steel with clerestory roof), we can see the following:

1. 2410A, six wheel trucks.
2. Notice what appears to be a marker light bracket at the end of the car
3. Position of air tank
4. Position of some kind of valve manifold next to air tank
5. Notice the ladder and handrailings at the close end of the car. The handrailings are a dead match and the custom ladder is as well.
6. Notice in the more recent photo that the paint is peeling in the areas where the baggage doors used to be. I think this is a result of the priming process (or lack thereof) and may also be a result of the difference in the grade of metal used to close the former baggage door opening.

I could go on but for the moment these spotting features are extremely strong indicators in my opinion. I am very interested in the opinions of the members of the forum on this matter and in particular in the interior condition of the car. Although one would expect the old parlor finishes to have long ago been stripped out they may have simply been covered in sheet metal and left largely intact.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby MEC407 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:18 am

Awesome find!
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:15 pm

Missouri Pacific has moved their Passenger Car Master List to this location. The listing for the final numbering of at least the ex-MEC cars is incomplete as it does not show the 7XX series numbering that the cars were given later on at MP.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby jmlaboda » Sun May 03, 2015 2:54 pm

There was one Missouri Pacific stainless steel coach, photographed intact in 1988 on a siding in Bracken, TX. This photo is listed at the bottom of a roster on the Screaming Eagles website. The car is potentially of MEC heritage. If it is some of the streamlining is missing next to the vestibule trap. Otherwise the car would appear to be a possible candidate for an ex-MEC coach.


There is no way that this car is MEC as it is a Budd-built car and MEC never had one (at least not in passenger service). This car is a Missouri Pacific 10 Roomette - 6 Double Bedroom car.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Mon May 04, 2015 3:00 pm

jmlaboda wrote:
There was one Missouri Pacific stainless steel coach, photographed intact in 1988 on a siding in Bracken, TX. This photo is listed at the bottom of a roster on the Screaming Eagles website. The car is potentially of MEC heritage. If it is some of the streamlining is missing next to the vestibule trap. Otherwise the car would appear to be a possible candidate for an ex-MEC coach.


There is no way that this car is MEC as it is a Budd-built car and MEC never had one (at least not in passenger service). This car is a Missouri Pacific 10 Roomette - 6 Double Bedroom car.


Jerry,

Thanks for the update on this photo. I'm glad to rule it out. If you have any sources for photography of Mexican rolling stock, especially anything recent that would be great. I can't find anything regarding the disposition of most of the Nacionales de Mexico (Ndem) passenger rolling stock. At least two MEC stainless streamlined coaches were photographed in service there but there aren't any disposition rosters.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby jmlaboda » Mon May 04, 2015 5:36 pm

Unfortunately I am like you when it comes to what happened to passenger cars in Mexico... the vast majority were scrapped after passenger service ended which included many rare and unique cars. Oddly enough, now the Mexican President is having to start from scratch to restore passenger service... what all those old cars could have saved them if they had been retained... B (
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby Stmtrolleyguy » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:55 am

gokeefe wrote:Almost a year ago, while sitting in my bunk one night in the barracks at Bagram Airfield I was doing online research in some of the photo archives when I noticed an uncanny match between two photos taken decades apart. When I realized the potential significance I was surprised to say the least. In the interests of preserving a potentially significant find I chose not to post this information for some time until I could consult with some of the experts in Maine who have worked with these cars. That having been done I am very happy to announce the following tentative addition to the list of Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment.

MEC #10, Parlor-Buffet, Spruce

Here is a picture of the car as baggage MEC #336. This conversion appears to have been widely reported and is considered reliable information. I believe that the car is sitting in Thorndike at the former B&ML and is the ex-MoW car currently numbered MEC #948. By sheer coincidence the current picture is taken from a nearly identical angle as the photograph depicting MEC #336.

Here is a list of spotting features that I believe confirm the car's identity when using the picture of MEC #336 for comparison.

Aside from car body style (heavyweight steel with clerestory roof), we can see the following:

1. 2410A, six wheel trucks.
2. Notice what appears to be a marker light bracket at the end of the car
3. Position of air tank
4. Position of some kind of valve manifold next to air tank
5. Notice the ladder and handrailings at the close end of the car. The handrailings are a dead match and the custom ladder is as well.
6. Notice in the more recent photo that the paint is peeling in the areas where the baggage doors used to be. I think this is a result of the priming process (or lack thereof) and may also be a result of the difference in the grade of metal used to close the former baggage door opening.

I could go on but for the moment these spotting features are extremely strong indicators in my opinion. I am very interested in the opinions of the members of the forum on this matter and in particular in the interior condition of the car. Although one would expect the old parlor finishes to have long ago been stripped out they may have simply been covered in sheet metal and left largely intact.


Also look at the odd spacing of the roof vents - the gaps are the same size and location in each photo - no vents over the baggage doors.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:57 pm

I was surprised to see this photo online. I think it shows the ex-RDG/MEC cars on their way to Korea.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby jmlaboda » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:00 am

Yes. A number of cars were sold to Korea once most of the passenger service was discontinued. Oddly enough, express service lasted a few more years.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby Dick H » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:25 am

The Colebrookdale Railroad in PA purchased a coach from the CSRX and it was moved out of North Conway by truck recently.
See CSRX thread. viewtopic.php?f=126&t=90306&start=930

I have not confirmed by sighting, but the car is reported to be MEC 2001. Details here.

http://farmtown3.rssing.com/browser.php ... item=12544
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:03 am

Interesting. I'm assuming they want to restore it to operation?
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby jbvb » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:11 pm

I believe the MEC's ex-RDG cars were purchased more or less simultaneously with the B&M's, though I don't know if it was the 1946 purchase or the 1952. I think the intention was similar, to scrap wood/SUF passenger ASAP, with priority to services where the wood/SUF cars were used at passenger speeds in trains with steel passenger cars. So the more progress the Main Turnpike made, the less they were needed.
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:10 am

First lead on the MEC streamlined coaches I've been able to find in almost two years ...

Posted in the Railway Preservation News Forums:

One of sixteen cars, with half owned by MEC as #240-#247, and half owned by B&M as #4800-#4807. MEC sold their cars in 1960 to MP as #770-#777, changed to #481-#488 in 1963. B&M sold their cars in 1957 to Wabash as #1417-#1424. The cars went to N&W in the merger as #1824-#1831, but only four of the cars (#1827, #1829-#1831) were renumbered as such. The other four cars were sold to NJDOT in 1968, which also acquired MEC #244 (the other seven went to NdeM via Edwards). NJDOT sold their five cars to Naparano in 1974.


This is the first time I've seen confirmation of disposition other than sale to Mexico of any of the MEC streamlined coaches. It is also the first time I've seen confirmation of the exact number of MEC coaches (7) that went to Mexico. I have yet to find any photos of MEC #244 "Parmachenee" as NJDOT/NJT ...
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby gokeefe » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:16 pm

Here is an updated roster based on the original post, and further information about the two ex-MEC cars on the B&ML. One is in Thorndike and is owned by the B&ML and the other is in Brooks and in private hands. Both were former MOW cars.

ADDED (from previous post) MEC #10, Parlor-Buffet, Spruce, (MEC #336 Baggage-Express, MEC #948 MoW), Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railroad, Thorndike, ME, Stored - Out of Service.

ADDED MEC #11, Parlor-Buffet, Pine, (MEC #337 Baggage-Express, MEC #949 MoW), Private Owner, Brooks, ME, Stored - Out of Service.

MEC #16, Diner - Lounge, Arundel, Hancock Port Commission, Gulfport, MS, Stored - Out of Service

MEC #155, Coach, McNeil Point, Downeast Scenic Railroad, Ellsworth, ME, Restored - Operating.

MEC #252, Coach (MEC #2011, Instruction Car, ex-MEC #209), Conway Scenic Railroad, North Conway, NH, Stored - Static. Also of note, per reliable sources this car is not on its original trucks. They were switched out and placed under CSRX Gertrude Emma.

MEC #333, Business Observation, Lone Tree, Pan Am Railways, Waterville, ME, Stored (Indoors) - Static. (Lone Tree has been the subject of an ongoing thread for some time on railroad.net here)

MEC #322, Power Car Combine, Pan Am Railways, Waterville, ME, Stored (Outdoors) - Static.

MEC #390, Coach (Heritage, AMTK #5444, PC #4044, PRR #4044), Pan Am Railways(?), Waterville, ME, Out of Service - Unknown. (Further research appears to indicate this car did not ever belong to the MEC during their passenger service era, MEC #390 (exxx-PRR 4044) was built for and saw service on the PRR train Southwind).

MEC #391, Chair - Cafe - Foodservice (Buffet?) (MEC #391, AMTK #3951, PC(?) #3211, NYC #3211, NYC #3011), City Point Central Railroad, Belfast, ME, Preserved - Static(?). (This coach also never operated on the MEC during their passenger service era, according to Bruce Cooper (as posted on NE Rail Photo) its heritage is AMTK #3951, NYC #3211, NYC #3011). Part of a 153 car order for 64 seat coaches by the NYC in 1948 to Pullman Standard (Plan #7484, Lot #2169, some others indicate Lot #6721).

MEC #409, Railway Post Office, Conway Scenic Railroad, North Conway, NH, Stored - Static. (Used as tool car by CSRX, interior condition unknown, wood exterior)

MEC #411, Railway Post Office (ex-PC, exx-NH W331 (MoW) exxx-NH, exxxx-MEC #352), Railroad Museum of New England, Stored - Under Restoration (steel exterior)

MEC #501, Combine, Cooperville & Marne Railway Company, Marne, MI, Stored - Static. (Interior photos show this car to be largely intact and in excellent shape). This car was also at one time in service on the "Otter Valley Railroad Tourist Train" in Proctor, Vermont. Other information seems to indicate it was part of the Steamtown Inc. collection at one time (supposedly on loan from MEC, not owned by Steamtown). It was also at one time in the collection of the 470 RR Club as well.

MEC #540, Lumber King, Baggage Coach, (MP #761, MP #562, Grill Coach), Kennekuk County Park, Danville, IL, Preserved - Static. (scroll to bottom of page on Danville, IL link).

MEC #573, EMD GP7 with steam generator for passenger service; known around the railroad as Mr. Miller's Engine; later became DH 573, then ST 27; now preserved and in service as CSRX 573.

MEC #901, MoW Coach (BAR #230), Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum, Shelburne, MA, Stored - Static is not discussed in this post due to the fact that is was never in passenger service (public or private (business)).
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Re: Surviving Maine Central Passenger Equipment

Postby jmlaboda » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:26 am

ADDED (from previous post) MEC #10, Parlor-Buffet, Spruce, (MEC #336 Baggage-Express, MEC #948 MoW), Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railroad, Thorndike, ME, Stored - Out of Service.

ADDED MEC #11, Parlor-Buffet, Pine, (MEC #337 Baggage-Express, MEC #949 MoW), Private Owner, Brooks, ME, Stored - Out of Service.


What is missing is that both of these cars were originally Pullman Dulcinea and Undina, both Plan 2417D parlor - Drawing Room - buffet cars.
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