Brookville engine purchase

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Brookville engine purchase

Postby oknazevad » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:47 am

From the Miami Herald:

When Tri-Rail, South Florida’s publicly owned commuter rail line, requested bids of up to $100 million for new locomotives last year, some manufacturers and state business and political leaders urged the agency to embrace advanced train-engine technology that experts say deliver big improvements in dependability and operating costs.

Instead, Tri-Rail administrators selected a small vendor with little experience in building commuter train locomotives that uses an old technology in decreasing use across the United States. Critics contend the locomotives Tri Rail selected, though cheaper to buy, will end up costing taxpayers far more to run during their 25-year lifespan than the newer, more-efficient train engines, which now make up the bulk of new sales across the industry.

On Friday, Tri-Rail’s governing board will vote on awarding a contract to the low bidder, Brookville Equipment Co. of Pennsylvania, to build 10 diesel locomotives at a cost of $4.2 million each, with an option for 17 more at a slightly lower price. Half the funding could come from federal stimulus dollars, with the balance coming from Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties.


Full article here:http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/23/2084183/south-floridas-tri-rail-set-to.html

Apparently MPI isn't happy, and others are critical as Brookville hasn't been a major player in passenger locos. That said, they did build the BL20-GHs for Metro-North, and those have been apparently pretty reliable, though they are limited to branchline service there. So we shall see.
rails > roads

On second thought, let's not go to the NJ Transit Rail forum, 'tis a silly place.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:35 pm

As a locomotive engineer operating the Brookvilles, I would not recommend the locomotive.
They have had a poor reliability (6 out of 12 shopped) and have poor visiblility, they also lacked small features like control stand lighting and were built with rear small engineers in mind.
no room to move around control stand and not enough room at seat for engineer to sit comfortably.
The DC propulsion is a big big negative as is the HEP powered by a auxiliary engine, the MTU/detroit is a good motor but the transition circuits are way to rough for passenger service.
TriRail would be way better off to go with a AC propulsion unit like the HSP-46 by MPI which is based on the Genesis P32ac propulsion system.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby MEC407 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:09 pm

Based on what I've read so far, the new locomotive being designed by Brookville, known as the BL36PH, is going to be a completely different animal than the BL20GH.

The official BL36PH thread can be found at: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=79539
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:52 am

not really, still DC powered machine with higher HP MTU/Detroit /4000 engine.
just a different box on wheels.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby Noel Weaver » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:24 am

Let me see, an AC traction motor engine on a perfectly flat piece of railroad pulling mostly three car trains. I think this is overkill. DC motors work just fine here now and the new engines do not need the pulling power to handle trains like they run up north. Once in a while on weekends they will double up equipment especially on the last train at night but even then they don't need the imense pulling power of AC motors. Fancy AC engines here are a waste of money.
Like the highways, the only grade on Tri-Rail is the ramp to the high level bridge here in Fort Lauderdale and it is not steep and pretty short as well.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:33 pm

no need for high hp your right, but AC power does cut maintenance of locomotive in half for each year the locomotive is owned.
one weak spot in Brookvilles is no dynamic or blended brakes, a big maintenace saving in passenger rail.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby electricron » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:47 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:no need for high hp your right, but AC power does cut maintenance of locomotive in half for each year the locomotive is owned.
one weak spot in Brookvilles is no dynamic or blended brakes, a big maintenace saving in passenger rail.

I'll agree that AC traction motors should have far less maintenance than DC traction motors. That's true in every application worldwide, and not just for trains.

Never-the-less, what would you suggest would be the dollar value of the yearly savings? $0.1 Million? $0.2 Million? $0.5 Million? $1 Million? Or more?
Take that value and multiply that by 25 years, 30 years if you wish. Is that final total less than or more than the price difference between Brookville or MPI's locomotive prices? Only then can you say it's cheaper to buy AC or DC traction motor locomotives. I've haven't seen any monetary values given either way, just personal opinions. I'm certain TriRail managers did this calculation.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Even without a dollar figure, I believe Brookvile has a lot to learn, and so far only proved to build a cheap, lacking basic fuctionality locomotives with a poor reliability rate.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby MEC407 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:50 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:one weak spot in Brookvilles is no dynamic or blended brakes, a big maintenace saving in passenger rail.


The BL36PH will have extended range dynamic brakes with blended brakes. I confirmed this with the company.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby Kurt-Trirail » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:18 am

MEC407 wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:one weak spot in Brookvilles is no dynamic or blended brakes, a big maintenace saving in passenger rail.


The BL36PH will have extended range dynamic brakes with blended brakes. I confirmed this with the company.


That doesn't mean that Brookville has figured out how to make such a system work. They haven't been successful in making a reliable locomotive of this caliber to start with, let alone bandy about with dynamics and blended braking.

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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby keyboardkat » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:37 am

The MTU engine used will require 20 cylinders to produce 3600hp, sort of like the old SD-45s, although the MTU is a four-stroke cycle engine and the EMD 645 is a two-stroke cycle engine. But MPI produced 3600hp from a 16-cylinder 645 clone. I'd like to know more about MPIs new AC traction locomotive.
One drawback of AC is that wheel wear is critical. The wheels must all be within about a half inch of equal diameter, because the 3-phase traction inverters will attempt to drive the all wheels at the same RPM. That's actually the only drawback I can think of.
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby MEC407 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:49 am

keyboardkat wrote:I'd like to know more about MPIs new AC traction locomotive.


What would you like to know?
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby keyboardkat » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Specs. I understand they will have GE FDL (or EVO) prime movers. Horsepower rating? What will they look like? Will they offer a dual-mode version for when the Long Island Rail Road finally gives up on its DM-30s? Since this is MPI's first effort at an AC traction road locomotive, are we sure that they can pull it off with version 1? Desktop or AAR control stands?
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby MEC407 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:06 pm

Prime mover is GE GEVO-12 at 4600 HP. HEP is drawn off the prime mover so traction horsepower will be less than 4600. (not sure of the exact number)

It will have GE AC traction motors which are the best in the business.

Unsure of dual mode availability as MBTA is thus far the only buyer and they are being built to MBTA specs. I don't see why dual mode couldn't be offered if a customer wanted it.

Lots more info can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_HSP46
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Re: Brookville engine purchase

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:09 pm

The BL36ph will have a MTU 20/4000 engine see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookville_BL36PH
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