Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby Clearfield » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:30 am

MariusP wrote:Is this section still extant? I understand the bit built for the old Sears building was demolished at the same time as the building. Another short stretch of tunnel branching off of the trunk line at I believe Erie(?) Ave is used to store equipment. Not sure if there is more tunnel beyond the storage section that is untracked?


IIRC, the 4 tracks up there can each hold 2 consists. Switches are hand thrown except where they connect to the active trackage. I haven't been up there in over 20 years.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby BuddCar711 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:09 pm

trolleyman541 wrote:There is a subway Station under Roosevelt Blvd in Philadelphia
The name of that station is called Adams Avenue, build in 1967 by the City of Philadelphia, however if never saw any trains in it nor tracks laid.
The line was to have branch off the The Broad Street Subway just north of the Hunting Park Station, but the train line would have ran in it's own tunnel under Broad Street but above the current Broad Street Subway Line.

I saw these plans come up and figured I would post them here, sure would have made things different.

http://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/Detail.aspx?assetId=42794


North of Hunting Park station? You mean that flyover past Erie wasn't for the proposed Boulevard Subway?
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby Clearfield » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:35 pm

If you mean the one at Roosevelt at Adams, it was ripped out when the intersection was rebuilt. It was built for the never-constructed branch that would have branched off at the north end of Erie.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby limejuice » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:11 pm

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, the station that was built under the Sears garage was for the Northeast Subway proposal, which was to divert from the Boulevard at Adams and follow the Pennway St. alignment. The garage/station was quite a ways off from the boulevard, so this would seem to make sense. There was an underground passageway at Adams and the Boulevard (that has since been sealed off) which many people mistake for the subway station, but I don't believe it had anything to do with he subway proposal.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby Patrick Boylan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:22 pm

I agree,
the station was supposed to be under the parking garage quite a ways off from the boulevard,
There was an underground pedestrian passageway at Adams and the Boulevard, strictly to get from one side of the Boulevard to the other, and had nothing to do with the subway. This is the first I've heard that the pedestrian passageway was closed off, maybe next time I'm by there I'll try to look, but I might need to ask my wife to drive. Sightseeing and driving on Roosevelt Blvd don't mix well.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby Clearfield » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:22 pm

IIRC, the station was built under the median of the Boulevard just south of Adams (using the old configuration of the intersection.)
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby limejuice » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:17 pm

There's a ventilation shaft in the median above the passageway. Could that be to what you're referring?
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby alewifebp » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:24 pm

It certainly seems to be closed off.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby glennk419 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:50 pm

Given the nature of that area these days, would YOU want to be down there?
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby N-Trizzy2609 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:43 pm

From what I heard, the station is under the parking lot and was partially under the parking deck off the garage. My friend who works for public service of Philadelphia showed me in person where he think part of the station still exist as steam pipe room for the shopping center above. He believes during the implosion, only the northern most part of platform was destroyed and the rest was sealed off. Given the way the intersection was originally arranged that makes perfect sense especially if the line it was going to use the Godfrey alignment. Keep in mind, the station was also suppose to be a temporary terminal purposely made to serve Sears and would've had a direct connection to the store had it been built.

As for the Erie layover, I was shocked to find out the end of the stub curves right but only a smige. It's geography put the end of the stub right at the south curb of Hunting Park Avenue meaning the line was suppose to use Hunting Park Avenue to make it over to the Blvd.
The PA-TEC made a recent proposal and I like the idea behind it. Extend the BSL in phases up the Blvd with an initial segment connecting to the El at Busleton-Levick. I hand drew a map of the proposal. The prices are esimates the PA-TEC came up with that I copied down. Now you see why we can't build it soon.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby JeffK » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:13 pm

Interesting map! Any idea what sort of connection might be contemplated at Bustleton & Levick? The lines are incompatible, so presumably one would "win" and continue up the boulevard while the other terminated at the intersection.

Unless of course someone figured out how to lay mixed-gauge rails 6" apart along with over-and-underrunning power.....
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby tgolanos » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:38 am

JeffK wrote:Interesting map! Any idea what sort of connection might be contemplated at Bustleton & Levick? The lines are incompatible, so presumably one would "win" and continue up the boulevard while the other terminated at the intersection.

Unless of course someone figured out how to lay mixed-gauge rails 6" apart along with over-and-underrunning power.....


I thought there was an earlier city-based proposal that showed the line branching from the BSL to continue up the Boulevard while the MFL extension terminated at Bustelton & Levick. If that were the case, I'd imagine the BSL branch would remain underground while the MFL extension would be elevated.

I like the idea of dual-gauge track with dual-power 3rd rail. I don't know of anywhere that this exists or if it's even possible, but it's a cool thought.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby AlexC » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:00 pm

What is the basis of those estimates? It's less than a mile to to Blvd @ Levick from FTC.
And it's a billion dollars?

For that we can build a much longer railroad to Reading or even, ahem, Newtown.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby JeffK » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:53 pm

There's more than just the track gauge causing issues with BSS-MFSE compatibility.

Actually, I was trying for a bit of irony there. :-D Sort of a "when pigs fly" statement *.

IIRC the railroads forced a 6" gauge difference on the streetcar companies so the spread would be too large for wide-tread wheels but too small to allow mixed-gauge tracking. E.g. think of what a switch frog would look like!

(*) Then again, one of my physics professors stated that if you use a trebuchet with a sufficiently large Vo and a release point such that Θ is close to π/4, a reasonable simulation of pig flight can be achieved.
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Re: Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

Postby JeffK » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:55 pm

There's more than just the track gauge causing issues with BSS-MFSE compatibility.

Actually, I was trying for a bit of irony there. :-D Sort of a "when pigs fly" statement *.

IIRC the railroads forced a 6" gauge difference on the streetcar companies so the spread would be too large for wide-tread wheels but too small to allow mixed-gauge tracking. E.g. think of what a switch frog would look like! Bottom line, the BSS and MFSE will always be so close, but never together.

(*) Then again, one of my physics professors stated that if you use a trebuchet with a sufficiently large Vo and a release point such that Θ is close to π/4, a reasonable simulation of pig flight can be achieved.
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