Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby Train60 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:42 pm

I went looking for information on this project and all I could find was this
http://septa.org/rebuilding/station/elwyn-wawa.html

Let me get this straight... SEPTA has budgeted $150.5 million to rehabilitate 3-miles of track, build a new stations and a 600-car parking deck? Maybe the budget also included additional EMU cars or work in the Media yard or work on the viaduct just to the west of Media? The price seem very high for a 3-mile extension of service.

If anyone has a link to more of the details please share it.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby MikeBPRR » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:06 am

Train60 wrote:I went looking for information on this project and all I could find was this
http://septa.org/rebuilding/station/elwyn-wawa.html

Let me get this straight... SEPTA has budgeted $150.5 million to rehabilitate 3-miles of track, build a new stations and a 600-car parking deck? Maybe the budget also included additional EMU cars or work in the Media yard or work on the viaduct just to the west of Media? The price seem very high for a 3-mile extension of service.

If anyone has a link to more of the details please share it.


*dusts off account after years of inactivity*

Well, I'm no budgeting expert, nor am I a SEPTA apologist, but as a nearly lifelong Middletown Township resident, here's what I know needs to be done:

1) New track and ties - if you walk the Chester Creek rail trail, you may see how old the ties and rails are.
2) PTC signalling - the railroad will need to be equipped with this. FWIW, there appears to be an empty frame for a signal by the Lenni Road.
3) A new station - I'm no expert, but I imagine that this will be a challenging engineering feat. There doesn't appear to be enough room for a six hundred car garage on the the old station site https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9007756,-75.4583861,280m/data=!3m1!1e3 between where the creek bends suddenly. The terrain is also rather hilly; there will need to be some hard core landscaping to fit the garage. Not only that, garages are expensive - it is more expensive to build a garage of 600 spaces than the equivalent of 600 spaces on a flat surface lot.
4) They also once intended to build a new yard, since SEPTA was having storage problems when this project was first proposed. I don't know if that's still in the cards, though.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby bikentransit » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:38 pm

It was suggested some time ago to just get the service up and running, do everything minus the Wawa property and reopen the station at Glen Riddle which would nicely attract walk ups. Under that scenario, the trackwork and PTC could proceed, and service could be extended partially until they had funds and motivation for Wawa. Rome was built faster than this.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby mcgrath618 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:58 am

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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby jonnhrr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:20 pm

The drawings show 2 tracks at the station. I assume that the rest of the extension will remain single track for the time being.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:32 am

jonnhrr wrote:The drawings show 2 tracks at the station. I assume that the rest of the extension will remain single track for the time being.

I noticed that too, do you think that only one platform will be used for now, and then they'll add another track one day, or do you think they're gonna use a wye?
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby andrewjw » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:56 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:
jonnhrr wrote:The drawings show 2 tracks at the station. I assume that the rest of the extension will remain single track for the time being.

I noticed that too, do you think that only one platform will be used for now, and then they'll add another track one day, or do you think they're gonna use a wye?


Why would a wye be needed with only one platform indefinitely?
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby ekt8750 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:13 pm

andrewjw wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:
jonnhrr wrote:The drawings show 2 tracks at the station. I assume that the rest of the extension will remain single track for the time being.

I noticed that too, do you think that only one platform will be used for now, and then they'll add another track one day, or do you think they're gonna use a wye?


Why would a wye be needed with only one platform indefinitely?


It wouldn't. The station looks like it's going to be a two track station with an island platform. The line will obviously split into two tracks further up before Wawa and then merge back into one after and continue to West Chester.

When I first saw the renders, I thought the actual platform was going to be built over Baltimore Pike but it looks like it'll be just before it.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:58 pm

ekt8750 wrote:
andrewjw wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:
jonnhrr wrote:The drawings show 2 tracks at the station. I assume that the rest of the extension will remain single track for the time being.

I noticed that too, do you think that only one platform will be used for now, and then they'll add another track one day, or do you think they're gonna use a wye?


Why would a wye be needed with only one platform indefinitely?


It wouldn't. The station looks like it's going to be a two track station with an island platform. The line will obviously split into two tracks further up before Wawa and then merge back into one after and continue to West Chester.

When I first saw the renders, I thought the actual platform was going to be built over Baltimore Pike but it looks like it'll be just before it.


That's what I meant.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby Suburban Station » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:59 am

are there economies of scale when it comes to track work? in other words, there is a fixed costs to getting the work site set up (and track designed) that can then support a larger amount of mileage? Perhaps the whole problem is that the extension is simply too small and as a result costs a heckuva lot more.
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