Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby wanderer34 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:55 am

I've already lost faith with SEPTA as a major transit agency!!! When it comes to it's bus service, some routes like the 16, the 56, and and 47 makes sense, while others, such as the H, the XH, and the 26 makes no sense at all to me!!! The subway service, while you can go north, south, west, and northeast, doesn't even reach much of the northeast, northwest, southwest, and suburbs like Jenkintown, Norristown, Bensalem, Darby, and Chester. And lastly, there's the commuter rail system, which was once a great system in it's own right.

There was a time when one could go from Center City Phila to Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Reading, Lancaster, Oxford PA, and West Chester by rail, but somehow in the 80's, SEPTA cut a lot of diesel service, and this affected a lot of the outlying communities from reaching Phila by rail, and a a result people who loved in communities like Pottstown, Newtown, Quakertown, Wawa, Coatesville and Kennett Square were forced to commute with their cars to nearby park and ride facilities such as Norristown, Paoli, Lansdale, and Elwyn. I have absolutely nothing against park an ride facilities, as it provides suburbanites with the option of driving form their homes to the closest station, which was the original intent of park and ride stations, but how SEPTA does it is to take commuter from Chester, Upper Montco, and Upper Bucks, and rather than providing commuters with the closest rail station, are now dictating to it's suburban commuters to just take their cars and drive to Norristown, Jenkintown, Elwyn, and Lansdale as opposed to renovating and restoring stations in Berks, Lehigh, Northampton, and Lancaster as well as in Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks counties.

Isn't SEPTA's primary responsibility supposed to be providing mass transit service within Southeastern PA??? I don't remember this agency being called just the PTA alone but SEPTA, meaning not just the Greater Philadelphia area, but the Lehigh Valley and Pennsylvania Dutch Country. I can agree that SEPTA needs to be fully reformed from the top, and have the higher ups dismissed and new blood to bring back not just reliable commuter rail service, but also better bus, trolley, and subway service as well!!! SEPTA is nothing more than a glorified bus agency running a rail system and the current higher ups need to go!!!
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby sammy2009 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:34 am

First and foremost , I do wish SEPTA would have kept its line like the way they was thirty + years ago. Financial times became hard and plus the company that had it before them let the system go into disarray and disrepair. SEPTA had no money and was forced to shut those lines down ?. How would they have kept those lines open with no money and support that they needed. SEPTA not the only agency to cut tons of lines in half.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby Suburban Station » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:16 am

west chester is back on the map in the capital plan
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby SCB2525 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:17 pm

Doesn't make up for the rail-to-trail firesale, IF it even happens (and I'm not holding my breath).
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:08 pm

Bear in mind that SEPTA is only authorized to operate in the five-county area. Other counties had the option of helping to support service to Bethlehem and Reading, and declined. Any expansion beyond SEPTA's present area would have to start with the Governor and the Legislature, and it's not hard to guess how far that would go. (Is Butler County's Gift To The Commonwealth still in control of such matters in the House?)
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby AlexC » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:12 pm

wanderer34 wrote:IThere was a time when one could go from Center City Phila to Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Reading, Lancaster, Oxford PA, and West Chester by rail, but somehow in the 80's, SEPTA cut a lot of diesel service, and this affected a lot of the outlying communities from reaching Phila by rail, and a a result people who loved in communities like Pottstown, Newtown, Quakertown, Wawa, Coatesville and Kennett Square were forced to commute with their cars to nearby park and ride facilities such as Norristown, Paoli, Lansdale, and Elwyn.

Passenger rail had not been and currently is not profitable. Historical passenger service was possible because freight railroads basically subsidized their own passenger service - it was good advertising for their freight product.

You couldn't have Amazon Prime with the PRR or RDG. Adams Express and Railroad Express Agencies notwithstanding.

USPS, UPS, FedEx & etc now move products by their own trucks and planes, they don't need passengers; and airlines are always reorganizing to try to stay in business because they offer only limited freight service.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby roadmaster » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:44 am

AlexC wrote:Passenger rail had not been and currently is not profitable. Historical passenger service was possible because freight railroads basically subsidized their own passenger service - it was good advertising for their freight product.


"The passenger train is like the male teat - neither useful nor ornamental" - James J Hill (1838 -1916) Railroad Tycoon

wanderer34 wrote:The subway service, while you can go north, south, west, and northeast, doesn't even reach much of the northeast, northwest, southwest, and suburbs like Jenkintown, Norristown, Bensalem, Darby, and Chester.


YES! This area needs a subway to Jenkintown, Norristown, Bensalem, Darby, and Chester! Amazingly, these areas were never included on any subway service wish lists in the regions history.

wanderer34 wrote:Isn't SEPTA's primary responsibility supposed to be providing mass transit service within Southeastern PA??? I don't remember this agency being called just the PTA alone but SEPTA, meaning not just the Greater Philadelphia area, but the Lehigh Valley and Pennsylvania Dutch Country.


Don't be so literal. Septa might take you up on this and cancel running into NJ and DE. There is not a solid established southeast PA boundary on the map, but the five county area was established as the area of primary focus since the SEPACT days because these were the actual counties that signed the agreement, not any of the counties in Lehigh or Dutch lands.

SCB2525 wrote:Doesn't make up for the rail-to-trail firesale, IF it even happens (and I'm not holding my breath).


Yup! Even though service cuts outside the five county are were not directly septa's fault, they have done enough local vandalism to stay in the doghouse in disgrace.

ExCon90 wrote:Bear in mind that SEPTA is only authorized to operate in the five-county area. Other counties had the option of helping to support service to Bethlehem and Reading, and declined. Any expansion beyond SEPTA's present area would have to start with the Governor and the Legislature, and it's not hard to guess how far that would go.


If one or more of those counties wants to step up to the plate with their money like Berks for service to Reading, then the PA legislature would not need to get involved.

ExCon90 wrote:(Is Butler County's Gift To The Commonwealth still in control of such matters in the House?)


This dude?: http://www.repmetcalfe.com/Committees.aspx
A true Athearn was straight out of Compton.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby ExCon90 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:06 pm

The very one.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby NorthPennLimited » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:35 am

I took a run down Baltimore Pike this morning to meet clients in Kennett Square.

The area around Wawa Station appears to be in the beginning stages of construction (just west of the RR bridge over Baltimore Pike).

If I had to wager a guess, they are beginning excavation work and driving pilings for the park & ride station at Wawa.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby bikentransit » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:45 pm

Gee, it only took 20 years. Why are they moving so fast?
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby ekt8750 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:09 am

bikentransit wrote:Gee, it only took 20 years. Why are they moving so fast?


It only took so long cause the money dried up in middle of the project during the capital funding mess of a few years ago. Now that they have the money to fund the rest of the project, it can now resume full bore.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:48 pm

Will any of the original station structure remain intact, or is this building going to be entirely new? They could probably afford to rip out some of the branch line tracks and expand the station onto that, being that it will be a terminus stop.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby ekt8750 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:50 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:Will any of the original station structure remain intact, or is this building going to be entirely new? They could probably afford to rip out some of the branch line tracks and expand the station onto that, being that it will be a terminus stop.


It'll be a completely new station built from the ground up that includes a large parking garage.
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby Suburban Station » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:57 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:Will any of the original station structure remain intact, or is this building going to be entirely new? They could probably afford to rip out some of the branch line tracks and expand the station onto that, being that it will be a terminus stop.

it has not yet been determined whether it will remain a terminus
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Re: Why is Wawa expansion so slow and costly??

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:05 pm

Suburban Station wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:Will any of the original station structure remain intact, or is this building going to be entirely new? They could probably afford to rip out some of the branch line tracks and expand the station onto that, being that it will be a terminus stop.

it has not yet been determined whether it will remain a terminus

You mean to say they're genuinely considering making a full return to West Chester?
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