SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby ChesterValley » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:56 pm

sammy2009 wrote:
CRRC also bidded for the NJT order but im not sure that NJT is required to follow the "Buy America" because its a state agency ? Someone correct me if i'm wrong.


The US Congress explicitly working towards forbidding the use of Federal funds to go to CRRC https://www.enotrans.org/article/senate-agrees-to-one-year-ban-on-transit-rail-car-and-bus-procurements-from-chinese-owned-companies/

zebrasepta wrote:I wonder if these will have any height issues on SEPTA and also what would the naming for these would be and knowing SEPTA they'll probably take out the bathrooms.


If SEPTA has turned down bathrooms on the new coaches, and the Silverliner V's, I seriously doubt they will have a sudden change of heart. No idea what it would take SEPTA to actually have a bathroom, especially when these trains have stupid long delays.


Outside of that, I'm not so sure if Bilevels bricks are the magic bullet to fix SEPTA's problems. Keep in mind dwell times spike with these things, especially for a line like Paoli or Doylestown on the R5 where the stations are so clustered together.
The Scheduled 11:30 R5 Local to Malvern Next To Arrive on track 4 Section B
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:05 pm

ChesterValley wrote:
sammy2009 wrote:
CRRC also bidded for the NJT order but im not sure that NJT is required to follow the "Buy America" because its a state agency ? Someone correct me if i'm wrong.


The US Congress explicitly working towards forbidding the use of Federal funds to go to CRRC https://www.enotrans.org/article/senate-agrees-to-one-year-ban-on-transit-rail-car-and-bus-procurements-from-chinese-owned-companies/

zebrasepta wrote:I wonder if these will have any height issues on SEPTA and also what would the naming for these would be and knowing SEPTA they'll probably take out the bathrooms.


If SEPTA has turned down bathrooms on the new coaches, and the Silverliner V's, I seriously doubt they will have a sudden change of heart. No idea what it would take SEPTA to actually have a bathroom, especially when these trains have stupid long delays.


Outside of that, I'm not so sure if Bilevels bricks are the magic bullet to fix SEPTA's problems. Keep in mind dwell times spike with these things, especially for a line like Paoli or Doylestown on the R5 where the stations are so clustered together.


SEPTA doesn't have bathrooms because the FRA doesn't require them to. If they were to expand into Maryland to connect with MARC (which is apparently in the works), they would be over the minimum length for bathrooms for both crew and passengers on the route. I think it's 60 miles.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby ChemiosMurphy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:02 pm

ChesterValley wrote:
sammy2009 wrote:
Outside of that, I'm not so sure if Bilevels bricks are the magic bullet to fix SEPTA's problems. Keep in mind dwell times spike with these things, especially for a line like Paoli or Doylestown on the R5 where the stations are so clustered together.



Tell that to the people that can't get a seat. For me, it sucked standing from Manayunk to 30th on a rush hour train. Also, those standees will now get a whole two pathways to stand in.

Less cars, more people, win win.

The dwell times for egress shouldn't be too bad if people are ready to roll at their station.

Also, no more awkward middle seat. People will be thrilled.

Also, I'd say 93.3% of people don't care about bathrooms since the rides are so short. How many people really use the restrooms on NJT trains that are less than 60 minutes?
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby CNJGeep » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:15 pm

ChemiosMurphy wrote:if people are ready to roll at their station.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby sammy2009 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:25 am

Hopefully dwell times is reduced by the time these cars possibly hit the rails. It would help if SEPTA really amped up the high-level platforms in the next five years.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby andrewjw » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:25 am

zebrasepta wrote:I wonder if these will have any height issues on SEPTA

SEPTA ran some NJT MLV IIs through the Center City Tunnel to test for their new CRRC MLVs, so these should fit fine.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby mcgrath618 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:18 pm

andrewjw wrote:
zebrasepta wrote:I wonder if these will have any height issues on SEPTA

SEPTA ran some NJT MLV IIs through the Center City Tunnel to test for their new CRRC MLVs, so these should fit fine.

Did they really? Does anyone have any pics?
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby ekt8750 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:25 pm

zebrasepta wrote:I wonder if these will have any height issues on SEPTA and also what would the naming for these would be and knowing SEPTA they'll probably take out the bathrooms.


They cleared NJT's current MLVs back when they were soliciting bids for their own multilevels.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby mcgrath618 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:33 pm

ekt8750 wrote:
zebrasepta wrote:what would the naming for these would be

Probably Silverliner VI.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby ExCon90 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:58 pm

CNJGeep wrote:
ChemiosMurphy wrote:if people are ready to roll at their station.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

They won't be able to roll if there are standees in the aisle who aren't getting off there. People can miss their stop under such conditions.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby Head-end View » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:46 pm

The much maligned Long Island Railroad has had bathrooms in every second car of its electric fleet for the last fifty years. And all their runs are under sixty miles. :wink:
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:39 pm

Bathrooms are not a requirement by law, not even for crews as long as bathrooms are available along the route (stations /yards/tower/ etc.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:55 pm

sammy2009 wrote:silverliner 4's are almost at the end of their useful life as is the Arrows.

CRRC also bidded for the NJT order but im not sure that NJT is required to follow the "Buy America" because its a state agency ? Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
In fact, the Silverliners have gone almost 45 years without a full rebuild, only modest upgrades along the way.

Buy America Act applies only to new car orders with federal transit funding (capital grants). State or 100% agency funded contracts are not subject to Buy America preferences for domestic assembly, labor and content. For example many MTA new equipment (bus and railcar) orders are fully self-funded by MTA Capital Program. Many NJT projects are fully funded by state transportation funds. Others, such as the ALP44s and some of NJT's MCI suburban coaches were financed by foreign investment banks.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby jamesinclair » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:31 pm

ChemiosMurphy wrote:Also, I'd say 93.3% of people don't care about bathrooms since the rides are so short. How many people really use the restrooms on NJT trains that are less than 60 minutes?


You dont care until you need it. And just because your time on the commuter rail is under 60 minutes, that doesnt mean your entire trip is.
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Re: SEPTA to Piggyback on NJT MLV III (EMU) Order?

Postby ChesterValley » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:18 am

I've been stranded on multiple trains for 2 hours, which is always fun when Amtrak has a delay or some other hiccup on the Paoli line. The R5 train from Thorndale though Doylestown lasts from 4:50 am to 730 am in the morning with multiple thorough runs lasting through the day, even with the crew change at suburban that's still a long haul. Furthermore SEPTA needs to do something to compete with Uber/lyft, bathrooms would be a very attractive amenity assuming they maintain them properly
The Scheduled 11:30 R5 Local to Malvern Next To Arrive on track 4 Section B
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