Modernizing the Trolley Network

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby ekt8750 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:10 pm

SEPTA and the DVRPC unveiled plans today on how they will go about modernizing the infrastructure of the city light rail network to accommodate the future replacements to the K-Cars:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_to ... ?mobi=true

A report released this week details plans for stops that will feature platforms raised above street level, will be wheelchair accessible, and provide the backbone of a service that, along with new, larger cars, would remake the trolleys in the city into something more like a light rail service.

The report from the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission is a small advance toward the plan to introduce new trolleys by 2024, an estimated $1 billion overhaul that rivals the proposed rail to King of Prussia in both cost and scope.

“This is a game changer for really an entire section of the city,” said Erik Johanson, SEPTA’s director of business innovation.

The new service would lengthen trips between stops and defined platforms where riders get on and off, instead of the bus-like system that exists now, in which trolleys can stop at nearly every intersection. The current 112 cars, 53-foot-long and manufactured by Kawasaki during the Reagan administration, along with 18 cars that date to 1948, would be replaced by 120 cars at least 80-feet long that could hold about twice as many people. SEPTA also has 29 trolleys on two routes in Delaware County that would also be replaced, but the focus is on city transit for now.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:01 pm

Apparently the PCC-II rebuilds are planned for retirement.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby ekt8750 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:49 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Apparently the PCC-II rebuilds are planned for retirement.


That's actually always been the plan. They were never a permanent solution.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby mcgrath618 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:43 pm

Someone on Reddit suggested that due to their heritage status, they should be moved to a more touristy line. Like something around Penn's Landing after they cap I-95.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:45 pm

ekt8750 wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:Apparently the PCC-II rebuilds are planned for retirement.

That's actually always been the plan. They were never a permanent solution.

Would some be retained for charter/excursion or special event service, as with TTC's PCCs?

mcgrath618 wrote:Someone on Reddit suggested that due to their heritage status, they should be moved to a more touristy line. Like something around Penn's Landing after they cap I-95.

It would be great to see the Penn's Landing Trolley on Columbus Blvd (on PBL) relaunched. DRPA had it in its 2007 proposal.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby pjabowling » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:05 pm

I think Septa should start eliminating some of those trolley stops now so people will get used to the changes.

I also see a fight coming about the placement of the platforms as some people will lose parking in front of their homes.

Most of the blocks of Baltimore, Woodland, Chester and Elmwood Avenues are too narrow for the bike lane scenarios and barely fit the trolleys now.

Can a larger vehicle actually make the turnaround into the 13th St. Station? The K cars originally did not fit and the tunnel was briefly closed for alterations.

It will be 40 years since the debut of the K cars by the time these light rail vehicles are in service and the lines become somewhat ADA compliant.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby ekt8750 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:37 pm

pjabowling wrote:Can a larger vehicle actually make the turnaround into the 13th St. Station? The K cars originally did not fit and the tunnel was briefly closed for alterations.


Most definitely anything they get will be articulated with multiple bending points to accommodate the sharp curves in the tunnel. If they're talking about 80ft long cars, this is going to be a must.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby pjabowling » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:54 am

from Septa's ModernTrolley Station Design Guide:

System expansion:
Opportunities may arise for
SEPTA to expand its trolley system onto new rights-
of-way. For example, the Delaware waterfront, the
Centennial District in West Philadelphia, and Eastwick
in Southwest Philadelphia, are all under early analysis
for potential extensions of existing trolley lines.

The 36 trolley should be expanded to its original route and end at the Eastwick Regional Rail Station. The Island Ave. portion of the route definitely needs a redesign as it takes both cars and the trolley way too long to navigate the intersections there.

A new trolley route should be made that uses some of the trolley diversion tracks near 40th St. to bring passengers directly from Center City to the Philadelphia Zoo. A simple extension into the park can service the Please Touch Museum and events at the Mann Music Center.

I don't think the waterfront trolley will ever happen. The tracks there are still used for freight. Plus no one really wants trolley wires along Columbus Blvd. Septa needs to just create a better bus route that serves the malls, Penn's Landing and directly connects to routes on Market St. Septa's Route 25 does a poor job of it.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby silverliner266 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:27 am

There has been a discussion on other boards about converting the 42 or 21 bus in a subway surface line to alleviate bus congestion on Chestnut in Center City.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:15 am

pjabowling wrote:I don't think the waterfront trolley will ever happen. The tracks there are still used for freight. Plus no one really wants trolley wires along Columbus Blvd.

How far north does Conrail operate on PBL? The PBL presently ends south of Arch Street (near Ben Franklin Bridge), but is there freight service north of Tasker (where Home Depot and the AAA auto service center are)? Apparently Pier 38 still had carloads (boxcars) until 2014.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby Gorindya » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:31 pm

Are there any plans for extra vehicles for use on [b]Germantown [/b]Ave from (Chestnut hill to Broad and Erie)? It would make sense to order extra trolleys when the West Philadelphia order is put in.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:37 pm

I thought Route 23 (Germantown) was long dead? Although some service may still be possible in Mt. Airy on the northern portion, which did run sporadic isolated service well until 2002/2003 or so.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby Gorindya » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:24 am

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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby braves » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:55 pm

Where is the Centennial District in West Philadelphia & would it be a new trolley route or converting a bus to trolley route, if so, which route(S) & where on the boards does it mention about converting route(s) 21 or 42 to trolley.
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Re: Modernizing the Trolley Network

Postby ekt8750 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:54 pm

braves wrote:Where is the Centennial District in West Philadelphia & would it be a new trolley route or converting a bus to trolley route, if so, which route(S) & where on the boards does it mention about converting route(s) 21 or 42 to trolley.


The Centennial District is the Memorial Hall (Please Touch Museum)/Zoo area. They've long since talked about creating a line that would originate in that area and run along the old City Branch corridor and connect with the Subway Surface tunnel.
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