SPAX 80

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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SPAX 80

Postby NorthPennLimited » Mon May 01, 2017 4:02 pm

I heard that SEPTA is using the money to repower SPAX 52 to replace it completely with a new locomotive from Knoxville Locomotive Works, Inc.

I checked the KLW website and couldn't confirm.

There was a line-item in the previous SEPTA budget report about repowering 52 with an EPA Tier 4 prime mover, but no other details.

Can anyone confirm SEPTA is getting a new hanger queen to add to the white elephant fleet of diesels?
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby South Jersey Budd » Thu May 04, 2017 9:26 pm

80 is supposedly on its way. It's a new engine on a switcher like frame that will add yet another manufacturer to SEPTA's diesel stable.

The plan to re-power the 52 was altered. Since 52 was rebuilt a few years ago with grant money it could not be rebuilt with grant money again for a said period of years. That period was not expired.

Re-powered 51 and GenSet 70 have been out of service with mechanical issues.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby deandremouse » Sun May 21, 2017 10:33 pm

Maybe it's one of the units similar to what NYNJ Rail uses?

Why does Septa order oddballs instead of a unified work fleet?
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby AC4619 » Sun May 28, 2017 7:09 pm

In general, when any company orders an "oddball" mix of any product--transportation or otherwise, they do it because of one of two reasons:

(a) They were able to get very good prices on those oddballs because they were "unwanted" orders from either other customers or in the supply line itself...

(b) They want maximum operational flexibility to do specific tasks with specific things.

Usually it's (b). It's the same with airlines...there are benefits to a standardized fleet of one AC type (all operational staff can work on ALL aircraft, usually going ANYWHERE---> lower costs, homogenous maintenance---> lower costs....etc etc etc). BUT, there are drawbacks. Some vehicles (trains, planes, busses), carry more passengers at the cost of using more fuel/resources per unit time/distance. Others carry less. If you're a big company...again trying to be general here...you reach a point at which the lowered price/increased convenience of homogeneity is offset by the mismatch between what you NEED, and what you HAVE. It wouldn't make sense to buy a long-distance bus to operate a septa city-route, it wouldn't make sense to send a silverliner car on a trip from DC to Boston, it wouldn't make sense to send a 777 to Goodland Kansas. The same is true for railyard equipment, at least in theory. E.g. one engine might be really good at hauling a lot of silverliners, with x acceleration from 0 to 15, y accel from 15 to 30 (mph), etc. But that engine might be bad at, quickly switching directions and yard moves. Another may be great with rapid accel/decel, yard moves, torque or whatever....and bad at getting above 25 mph quickly. SEPTA's RR fleet has over 400 silverliners + trackwork equip. They need variety.

With all that being said, it's (always) debatable as to whether they need THIS much variety...THIS many manufacturers (etc). The equation of utility vs cost rapidly swings in the cost/problematic direction with an extremely unicorn-centric fleet of oddball locos, and, like many things SEPTA does, lack of intelligence and penny-pinching may be playing a role here.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby South Jersey Budd » Tue May 30, 2017 12:02 pm

SEPTA must accept the bid of the qualifying supplier with the lowest bid. See the thread for the new bi-level cars, someone explained it very well there. KLW must have been the lowest bid that was deemed qualified to supply the new engine.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby zebrasepta » Tue May 30, 2017 12:18 pm

South Jersey Budd wrote:SEPTA must accept the bid of the qualifying supplier with the lowest bid. See the thread for the new bi-level cars, someone explained it very well there. KLW must have been the lowest bid that was deemed qualified to supply the new engine.

I read a article about the multilevel cars that contradicts that "SEPTA must accept the lowest bidder"

http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/03/ ... uth-philly
*CORRECTION: This sentence was originally: "By law, SEPTA has to award the contract to the lowest responsive, responsible bid." That was incorrect. SEPTA's RFP for the rail cars states: "Neither price/cost nor technical expertise shall be the sole determining factor. Accordingly, SEPTA may not necessarily make an award to the Proposer with the highest technical rating not award to the Proposer with the lowest Price Proposal, if doing so would not be in the overall best interests of SEPTA, taking all of the factors into account.... The BAFO [Best and Final Offer] (including Option) will be evaluated by SEPTA baesd upon which BAFO represents the 'best value' to SEPTA by providing a combination of both price/cost and technical evaluation factors which SEPTA determines is in the best interests of, and the most advanteous to SEPTA."

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Re: SPAX 80

Postby Backshophoss » Tue May 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Was SPAX 52 used as trade-in fodder?
Or supply the frame for SPAX 80?
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby South Jersey Budd » Wed May 31, 2017 9:07 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Was SPAX 52 used as trade-in fodder?
Or supply the frame for SPAX 80?


No it was not. 52 rescued the push pull set that died in Trenton yesterday.

80 is an addition to the diesel roster. Supposed to be on a road switcher frame like a GP-9/16 with road trucks from what I hear.

51 and 70 still out of service for repairs.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby NorthPennLimited » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:18 pm

Got a tip KLWX 80 in SEPTA paint is sitting in Abrams Yard on 38G. Not sure why it's running under Knoxville reporting marks.

No word yet if 80 is getting cut off at Abrams before the train continues to Camden.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby Limited-Clear » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:22 pm

It's using Knoxville reporting marks because Septa hasn't officially accepted it yet.
The managers in their ivory tower know more and more about less and less, and end up knowing everything about *&$% all
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby nova08 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:45 am

61 just picked it up at Abrams and is headed east on the Norristown line.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby South Jersey Budd » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:03 pm

80 was testing last week pulling a push pull set through the tunnel and was on the wire train one day. 70 is now on the wire train at Wayne Electric.
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby scotty269 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:08 pm

Wow, they had this hauling a PP set? That's impressive!
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby JeffK » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:38 pm

scotty269 wrote:Wow, they had this hauling a PP set? That's impressive!

:-D :P :-D :P :-D
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...
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Re: SPAX 80

Postby mcgrath618 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:59 pm

Anyone have pics of this or of something similar? I have no idea what it looks like.
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