Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

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Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby Blackstreet » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 pm

I like Septa and everything, but ...

Some if not most of the buses are dirty as hell...

Some of the drivers and operators are mean...

Sometimes the vehicles don't even come on time...

and other Septa associates don't provide good customer service!

I find it convenient that when they hold a meeting about it in April of course they don't want input from commuters. We don't have a say about it because of course we'll tell them not to raise the fare. For me, ever since 2008 or 2009 I would use a reduced-fare pass for fare payment. It was always $1.00 and then an additional $0.50 if i want a transfer. It's always been like that even after the fare hike of 2013 or whenever the last time fares went up. If they go up another $0.25 then will reduced fare stay the same? I hope so. Thing is... I even had a driver of the 13 Trolley in Darby make a pass at me. A girl on the 11pm news even complained about drivers being rude. Also, change the Arrott Station back to Margaret-Orthodox, have cleaner vehicles, put the roll signs back on the trolleys, and more Silverliner 4 trains, and then maybe... just maybe i'll be okay with the fare hike.
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby scotty269 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:46 am

Year after year, cost of goods and services go up. This is no different.
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Re: SEPTA fare increase proposal - Effective: July 1,2017

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:28 am

Everyone:

http://www.septa.org/notice/fare-change-hearing.html

I had no idea until reading this notice concerning upcoming April public hearings that SEPTA had
proposed a fare increase and would have thought that the plan was to wait until the Key was to
be more established. The fare replacement proposed timeline will be interesting in any case.
Monday April 24th at 1234 Market HQ at 11am and 5pm will be the prime venue next month.

What SEPTA plans to do with the Key on Regional Rail is to replace in its entirety the currently
used system of unlimited use passes and one way tickets and on board cash fares which is to
be a monumental task in itself realizing the sheer amount of machines and other support that
will be needed at all stations. This will take significant time to accomplish and test to be sure
that the Key is fully ready and until then the current RRD fare types need to be available.

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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby Bill R. » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:36 am

Blackstreet wrote:I like Septa and everything, but ...

Some of the drivers and operators are mean...


Full disclosure: without naming names, I know someone who works as a bus driver out of one of the northeast depots. Some of the stories are absolutely hair-raising, and this guy was in the armed forces. It's not a situation that I would be willing to tolerate. And people of all ethnic backgrounds have engaged in anti-social behaviors.

This doesn't excuse negative customer interactions by SEPTA employees, but everyone commenting on said employees should "walk a mile in the moccasins" before issuing definitive caveats. Just sayin'......
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Re: SEPTA fare increase proposal - Effective: July 1,2017

Postby JeffK » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:34 am

MACTRAXX wrote:What SEPTA plans to do with the Key on Regional Rail is to replace in its entirety the currently used system of unlimited use passes and one way tickets and on board cash fares which is to be a monumental task in itself realizing the sheer amount of machines and other support that will be needed at all stations. This will take significant time to accomplish and test to be sure that the Key is fully ready and until then the current RRD fare types need to be available.
MACTRAXX

I absolutely agree. It looks to me (cynically) as if they've been so stung by past delays that everything's now being pushed out whether it's ready or not. Beyond the risks of rushing the rollout, my biggest concern is that as dysfunctional as the fare current system is, it has certain flexibilities that are being taken away under the Key. Probably the two most glaring in my opinion:

- There is no convenient replacement for the individual-ride flexibility offered by tokens. The minimum price for tokens is currently $3.60 for a two-pack, they can be bought in arbitrary numbers, and can shared among multiple riders on the same trip. The Key has a minimum price of $10 which is one of the highest of any system's stored-value card, it has to be reloaded in similar large increments, and cards can't be shared. (The lack of sharing will be a big problem for social-service agencies, etc. that currently buy tokens in bulk and use them to help their clients get to job interviews and such.) On top of that, SEPTA's already replacing token machines and turnstiles with QT kiosks that charge higher prices and are valid only at the point of purchase.

- Buried deep in the notice's fine print is that once the Key is in place, transfer privileges will be available only to card-holders. Everyone else - visitors, occasional/irregular riders, etc. - will in many cases have to pay a full fare for each boarding even if their trip can't be made on a single vehicle. That's 180º counter to the practice adopted in most other venues where a fare buys a trip, either by time or distance, rather than charging by the number of vehicles needed.

The only good news is that it looks like QTs on the Regional Rail system will be priced the same as ticket-office fares, which (let's hope) will go a long way to ending the stinking on-board surcharge.
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:32 pm

http://www.delcotimes.com/general-news/ ... fare-hikes

Anybody go the hearings for Delco or the one in Bucks today? This article seems too cut and dry for my liking and I wonder if anybody really cares about fares going up.
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:05 am

http://www.theintell.com/news/local/at- ... 3ae1a.html

A report on the fare proposal hearing in Doylestown, Bucks County yesterday. Again, nothing really new to report since it appears that nobody has been going to these meetings. Interesting that they're noting a drop in ridership, but after the past year, if it wasn't self-evident before last summer...

So, hey, let's beg now and maybe we'll understand in the future... :-/
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Re: SEPTA proposed fare changes effective 7/1/2017

Postby MACTRAXX » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:49 pm

Everyone:

Tomorrow (Monday April 24th) will be the best chance for anyone to voice opinions to SEPTA's July fare changes -
with the Philadelphia hearings scheduled for 11am and 5 pm at SEPTA Headquarters Board Room at 1234 Market Street.

For anyone that attended last week's hearings in Media, Doylestown and West Chester please post how many people
attended each hearing and how long each session lasted.

I expect the Philadelphia hearing sessions to be somewhat well attended with subjects like SEPTA's
transit transfer policy changes under the Key implementation as a good example to be discussed.

The 4/25 meeting in Norristown is too far away from the Courthouse and NTC for any significant attendance.
More interest for this if it was easier to get to from the prime SEPTA routes serving the NTC and area.

See: http://www.5thsq.org/freetransfers

This is an organization that would like to see the $1 transfer charge abolished...

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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:21 pm

Any reporting from today's hearings at 1234 Market St? I also noticed that there was a distinct lack of coverage from the ones in West Chester. Perhaps the regional rail schedule change and the NFL Draft Parkway closures have really been overshadowing things... :-/
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby scotty269 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:52 am

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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby Bill R. » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am

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Re: SEPTA fare increase - Effective: July 1,2017

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:42 pm

Everyone:

In the past week SEPTA has posted the new fares effective on July 1, 2017.
http://www.septa.org/fares/new/index.html

I find it interesting that in this chart that there is no mention of the RRD Anywhere via CCP fare.
The other interesting RRD fare is the intermediate one way fare is going to be $3.75 with $4.00
the on board cash fare - the preliminary fares indicated a $5.00 on board cash fare so it seems
that SEPTA backed down on that proposed surcharge meaning no increase for that on board fare.

Since tokens will continue to be sold and accepted for the foreseeable future it remains to be seen
if there will be any rush to stock up since they will be going up 20 cents each. It will be interesting
to get an idea how many do get sold before the fare increase since it may give an idea how long
that SEPTA plans to use and retire tokens. In any case this must be a gradual change over to the
Key and that there must be significant lead time for riders to either use or redeem unused tokens.

I recall 2003 when NYC Transit eliminated the use of tokens that it was the better part of a year
before tokens were discontinued. They were valid on the Subway for a period and then only on
buses with a 50 cent cash addition. The incentive was the $2.00 fare up from $1.50 increase...

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Re: SEPTA fare increase - Effective: July 1,2017

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:14 am

MACTRAXX wrote:I find it interesting that in this chart that there is no mention of the RRD Anywhere via CCP fare.


According to the RRD Tariff ( http://www.septa.org/fares/pdf/Tariff-1 ... FY2018.pdf ) the pre-purchased Anywhere fare goes up to $9.25 and the on-board cash fare...huh...says...$9? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Oh, wait...going further down to the SEPTA Key section...it says $10...that's...confusing...
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby JeffK » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:11 pm

Two more RRD followup items:

Based on some comments I've heard from people on the inside, SEPTA has no intention of deploying kiosks at roughly one-third of all RRD stations. Explanations / excuses / spin have included "not needed", "too expensive to maintain", and vandalism worries (usually with the implicit "SEPTA's vandals are different from other systems vandals"). The bottom line is that neither of the current inefficiencies will go away - casual riders from those stations will still be subject to the onboard surcharge, and conductors will still have to be able to process cash on the train.

It's also been announced that once the Key is up and running on the RRD (although what defines "running" is unclear), passengers 65 and over won't have to pay a dollar to ride; seniors will be able travel for free just like they do on the transit side. Again, the spin is that it's a "simplification" to make senior access seamless across all modes, but I've also heard that the underlying reason is the same as that behind elimination of transit zone fares: they're both special-case fares that Key was never designed to handle (!) While I'm looking forward to saving a buck here and there, it's perplexing that SEPTA would readily give up two known income sources when so much of the Key's development effort's shown a fixation with preserving existing revenue streams 1-for-1.
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Re: Are they kidding me with the proposed fare hikes?

Postby Franklin Gowen » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:00 pm

Thanks, JeffK, for doing the legwork and networking with parties who are "in the know". It's very important that this sort of news becomes known more widely.

JeffK wrote:Two more RRD followup items:

Based on some comments I've heard from people on the inside, SEPTA has no intention of deploying kiosks at roughly one-third of all RRD stations. Explanations / excuses / spin have included "not needed", "too expensive to maintain", and vandalism worries (usually with the implicit "SEPTA's vandals are different from other systems vandals"). The bottom line is that neither of the current inefficiencies will go away - casual riders from those stations will still be subject to the onboard surcharge, and conductors will still have to be able to process cash on the train.

I see. So the metaphoric lily's been gilded, but the resultant shine is just mere hype & misdirection by the agency. If cash is still going to be handled, this is a massive hole in the entire project's publicly stated purpose and functionality -- functionality that should have been embraced and made to serve the public good, instead of being a mere cover/excuse by the agency for perpetuating some of its most chronic and dysfunctional established ab-reactions (and resultant practices). If there's really a "purpose" here at all, I think that's it. Other opinions welcome here.

JeffK wrote:It's also been announced that once the Key is up and running on the RRD (although what defines "running" is unclear), passengers 65 and over won't have to pay a dollar to ride; seniors will be able travel for free just like they do on the transit side. Again, the spin is that it's a "simplification" to make senior access seamless across all modes, but I've also heard that the underlying reason is the same as that behind elimination of transit zone fares: they're both special-case fares that Key was never designed to handle (!)

[-blinks in astonishment-] That's almost literally incredible. What a failure of vision. I think that a "!!!" would be even more appropriate of a reaction.

JeffK wrote:While I'm looking forward to saving a buck here and there, it's perplexing that SEPTA would readily give up two known income sources when so much of the Key's development effort's shown a fixation with preserving existing revenue streams 1-for-1.

To me, it does make sense when one sees SEPTA's attitude about the Key not as a path to a future where different practices & new advantages would reign, but instead as a means to "bake in" retrogressive & customer-hostile attitudes of the past as well as present. I've long been an advocate for improved public transportation, but this is ridiculous. The latest Machiavellian twist revealed in the Key saga makes me even more willing to say SEPTA delenda est. What other rational responses come to mind in the face of such a mess? The situation isn't just tragedy, but also farce. This particular type of "stewardship" of public assets is not merely not neutral, but negative.

JeffK, don't the parties who have spoken to you in confidence realize this? Or worse, are they too-tied-to the ranks of the chief enablers???

SEPTA is much too willing to furnish excuses and turn away parties bearing dollars while it obsesses to the exclusion of all else, Captain Ahab-like, about pursuing nickels that it believes itself entitled to. If in these matters an institution can be said to have a collective personality, one probably need not look much further than the most famous villain from the works of Charles Dickens.

Yes I know the agency is kept on an ideologically-shortened financial leash by the state legislature. But for heaven's sake, why isn't SEPTA aiming at the right target?

So, what can be done, realistically, to turn the SEPTA Key around? Anything? Nothing?

What is DVARP doing about this? What other sources of oversight are aware of the real fiasco in progress, and are willing to hold the agency's feet to the fire?

I can't bring myself to believe that we might indeed be stuck with the presently-planned concept for the Key. It's just so flawed.
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