MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

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MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby glennk419 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:59 am

Local news is reporting a collision and derailment at 69th Street on the loops west of the terminal platforms. Aerial shots show three train sets involved with at least four cars on the ground with the front truck detached from one of the lead cars. Fortunately there were no passengers involved but some minor injuries are reported. Currently shuttle bussing between 63rd and 69th.

Fair use quote: UPPER DARBY, Pa. (WPVI) --
Two out-of-service trains collided near 69th Street Terminal in Upper Darby on Tuesday morning.

http://6abc.com/traffic/2-out-of-service-trains-collide-upper-darby/1765140/
Last edited by glennk419 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby 34thStreet » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:15 am

Yes from those aerial shots, it appears that one of the trains must have rear-ended the other going around the loop at 69th, and the first car on the second train subsequently derailed and is leaning into yet a third trainset on the adjacent track. Sounds like a mess for sure. Looks like I'll be driving or hopping on regional rail today.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby MACTRAXX » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:23 am

Everyone:

This looks rough involving three six car MFSE train sets - during a period of a car shortage.
As 34th speculates it looks to be a rear ender between two trainsets following one another
causing contact with a third train on the paralleling track.

I have ridden trains around the loop tracks there in the (distant) past and in more recent years
this was not permitted primarily to keep farebeaters at bay. Hopefully no unauthorized riders
were on board any one of these trains. Was any of the three train operators hurt in this mishap?

With decent weather and a somewhat isolated location - and the proximity of the shops nearby -
this could be a cleanup that could take a reasonable amount of time and effort to restore service
back to 69th Street. If necessary could trains be crossed over and reverse directions on the two
eastbound tracks there provided that third rail power is available depending on the location of
section switches at or near the west end of the platform? This could help the PM rush today 2/21.

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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby roadmaster » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:44 am

MACTRAXX wrote: If necessary could trains be crossed over and reverse directions on the two
eastbound tracks there provided that third rail power is available depending on the location of
section switches at or near the west end of the platform? This could help the PM rush today 2/21.


I believe after discharging passengers, a train can pull forward on the tracks that lead to the shops and reverse back to the boarding platforms. But this would put trains underneath the recovery/salvage operation so I doubt nothing runs until the cleanup is done.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:04 am

I think channel 3 reported at least three or four injured persons...two operators with one of them in critical condition and I think two passengers (possibly fare beaters as previously mentioned earlier)...

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... per-darby/
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby 34thStreet » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:33 am

JeffersonLeeEng wrote:I think channel 3 reported at least three or four injured persons...two operators with one of them in critical condition and I think two passengers (possibly fare beaters as previously mentioned earlier)...


I would imagine the operator of that lead car that seems to have separated from the truck would be in critical condition- the more images I see of the crash it appears that cab area would have taken quite a hit, even if the train wasn't traveling very fast (which it shouldn't be on that loop). Hopefully he or she is able to recover but there will no doubt be many questions for the individuals involved, including the dispatcher who I believe would normally be monitoring the train movements at the terminal.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby JeffK » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:37 am

My heart goes out to the injured. Based on the picture and the number of cars reportedly involved, it looks as if the two trains that collided also impacted a third train on the other loop track. The interview with Chief Chitwood left open the possibility service could be disrupted for as long as the rest of the week, unfortunately. Fingers crossed for better news once more's known.

Coming right after those cracks were found, this incident is sure to generate endless finger-pointing and speculation among armchair experts who all know FARRRR more than the safety engineers from SEPTA and NTSB :(
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby MACTRAXX » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:04 pm

roadmaster wrote:
MACTRAXX wrote: If necessary could trains be crossed over and reverse directions on the two
eastbound tracks there provided that third rail power is available depending on the location of
section switches at or near the west end of the platform? This could help the PM rush today 2/21.


I believe after discharging passengers, a train can pull forward on the tracks that lead to the shops and reverse back to the boarding platforms. But this would put trains underneath the recovery/salvage operation so I doubt nothing runs until the cleanup is done.


RM: I was thinking about using a crossover east of the 69th Street Terminal platforms to cross
trains over to one or both of the eastbound terminal platform tracks either E or W of Millbourne.

I understand using the yard/shop access tracks to change directions but with the wreck above
on the loop tracks this option would be unnecessarily dangerous during the recovery effort...

JLE: Sometimes unauthorized riders going around the 69th Street Terminal loops are only just
innocent riders that may have for example missed their stop and wish to not have to pay again
or sleeping (or perhaps homeless people) that are missed by employees before trains turn.

My referral to fare beaters is that sometimes they can slip aboard unnoticed when trains stop
to discharge passengers and stay hidden to ride around the loop especially at busy times.
In case anyone is unaware the MFSE discharge platform at 69th Street is outside the paid area.

I give SEPTA credit that they do normally distinctly announce when trains will go to the yard
and not around the loop to change directions to discourage unauthorized riding - or someone
ending up being stuck inside a train in the 69th Street yard...

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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby JeffK » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:25 pm

As of 2 pm KYW reports that the cleanup process is proceeding much faster than initially expected. Service should be operating through the terminal before rush hour but with all trains running as locals instead of A/B.

The story also confirmed that the crash involved one train hitting another that was stopped, with the derailment impacting a third train on the other loop track. They said one operator was seriously injured but didn't give details of the other three casualties.

MACTRAXX wrote:Sometimes unauthorized riders going around the 69th Street Terminal loops are only just innocent riders that may have for example missed their stop and wish to not have to pay again rm at 69th Street is outside the paid area. ... I give SEPTA credit that they do normally distinctly announce when trains will go to the yard and not around the loop to change directions to discourage unauthorized riding - or someone ending up being stuck inside a train in the 69th Street yard.

Granted I mostly ride during the day, but the majority of the people I've seen get caught were asleep, along with an occasional ethanol user. One of the NHSL operators told me that several people a week get stuck in the yard and that yard trains are checked pretty thoroughly. Then too, every so often they find a passenger who's waiting for the stop at Willoughby....
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby 34thStreet » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:25 am

Looks like the cleanup is well underway at 69th. As I was catching the el a few minutes ago they had two of the cars involved in the crash being pushed by some diesel equipment down the loop into track 1 at 69th and then back to he yard. Looks like only two of the heavily damaged cars remain on the loop still. There wasn't too much delay with bringing the revenue trains into 69th on tracks 2 and 3 then changing ends. They do occasionally do this anyway, anyone know why the loop exists in the first place?
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby JeffK » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:42 am

34thStreet wrote:There wasn't too much delay with bringing the revenue trains into 69th on tracks 2 and 3 then changing ends. They do occasionally do this anyway, anyone know why the loop exists in the first place?

I'm not 100% on this but it would seem that continuous operation would be more efficient and flexible than changing ends. An inbound train can be discharging passengers while two outbound sets are staged for boarding on a separate platform, which keeps the two streams separate. Also, does anyone know if different operating practices were used when the line first opened?

A minor side effect is that the cars are reversed which equalizes flange wear.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby SemperFidelis » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:43 pm

I think some of thier old equipment (Liberty Liners?) were single ended, thus the loop. I know the Brill Liners, Brill Bullets, and the new cars are all double ended, but I think that the Liberty Liners were single ended. They might have been the only single ended equipment to use the line, although maybe the loop was installed when servixe north of Norristown came off and some equipment that was single ended and used to run to Allentown started running just the Route 100 trackage.

Edit: I could be totally wrong about the Liberty Liners but I am having trouble finding information that specifically says if they are or are not double ended. Probably just an ease of service thing that was built when many, many more passengers used the line.

Edit2: Yup, I am wrong. They appear to be double ended. So either it was ease of service or they had some other equipment over the years that required the loop. Probably the former.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby MichaelBug » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:33 pm

SemperFidelis wrote:I think some of thier old equipment (Liberty Liners?) were single ended, thus the loop. I know the Brill Liners, Brill Bullets, and the new cars are all double ended, but I think that the Liberty Liners were single ended. They might have been the only single ended equipment to use the line, although maybe the loop was installed when servixe north of Norristown came off and some equipment that was single ended and used to run to Allentown started running just the Route 100 trackage.

Edit: I could be totally wrong about the Liberty Liners but I am having trouble finding information that specifically says if they are or are not double ended. Probably just an ease of service thing that was built when many, many more passengers used the line.

Edit2: Yup, I am wrong. They appear to be double ended. So either it was ease of service or they had some other equipment over the years that required the loop. Probably the former.



The loop in question at 69th Street is used only by the Market-Frankford Line rolling stock. None of the cars used on the Norristown High Speed Line (former P&W), past or present, can operate on the Market-Frankford Line loop trackage, as the two lines use different track gauges. (MFL uses Pennsylvania broad gauge, NHSL uses standard gauge).

(The five Budd Market-Frankford cars that were transferred to the NHSL in the 1990's had their original broad-gauge trucks replaced with standard-gauge trucks from retired PATH equipment.)
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby SemperFidelis » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:08 am

Wow,total idiot here. My bad. Seriously, wtf is wrong with me? :P

Somehow I had read this entire thread and came to the conclusion everyone was talking about Route 100 and an accident at Norristown.

I have no idea how I came to that conclusion and consider myself borderline retarded right now for my pointless contributions.

Everyone please accept my apology for wasting your collective time.
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Re: MFL Collision and Derailment - 69th Street

Postby philipmartin » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:57 am

How about "sleep apnea" for the motorman who hit the train ahead?
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