Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and NHSL

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Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and NHSL

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:07 pm

Beginning Sunday, January 1, 2017

As part of SEPTA's on-going efforts to simplify fares [...] changes will go into effect for Customers traveling on Bus Routes 123, 124, 125, & 150, and the Norristown High Speed Line


Customers currently using a Zone 1 (NHSL) or Zone 2 (123, 124,125, 150) TrailPass to travel on these Routes can now purchase a TransPass to pay their fare


http://www.septa.org/fares/new/january- ... ation.html
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby ekt8750 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:24 pm

So they've eliminated the "premium" fare that was applied to those routes.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby kiha40 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:23 pm

I wonder if the Key is part of the motivation behind this. There's no Key option available that covers the extra fare like a zone 1 or 2 trailpass, is there?
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby jackintosh11 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:14 pm

Not yet. I think this is so they can roll out the key system fully on transit.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby JeffK » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:25 pm

Amazing, and VERY welcome. The surcharges on these routes have been a sticking point for the last 3+ years. In their own way they've been as odious as the RRD on-board surcharge, esp. because unlike the RRD there's zero opportunity to avoid them.

It's impractical but I'd sure like it if they gave some sort of credit for those years of extra payments.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby roadmaster » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:25 am

I'll echo the sentiments that this is an overdue welcomed policy. Still though, if this move is related to the Key system not being able to address and execute the robbery, I have to ask really? With all the time and money spent on this fare collection system, SEPTA should be able to use the system to document every time you take a dump at 69th street.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby jackintosh11 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:10 am

I'm not sure if SEPTA really needs to know about our pooping habits, but the key system actually is able to "address and execute the robbery" quite easily.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby roadmaster » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:42 am

jackintosh11 wrote:but the key system actually is able to "address and execute the robbery" quite easily


Ok, so to understand better, if the Key is capable, why exclude robbing for the roll out? Is it a case of eventually being able to rob in the future but not now? If that is the case, will the robbery commence once able?

jackintosh11 wrote:I'm not sure if SEPTA really needs to know about our pooping habit


I agree, just stating that with all the resources being spent on this new system, it should be Orwellian enough to account for the $0.50 grift. Now that I think about it, they should install the turnstiles at the bathroom entrances. At least have the homeless pay a one trip fare to use the sink as a bath tub.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:13 am

roadmaster wrote:
jackintosh11 wrote:but the key system actually is able to "address and execute the robbery" quite easily


Ok, so to understand better, if the Key is capable, why exclude robbing for the roll out? Is it a case of eventually being able to rob in the future but not now? If that is the case, will the robbery commence once able?


Well, they did postpone the last planned fare hike to accommodate for a delayed Key roll-out. I'm suspecting that deferred fare hike will be coming more sooner than later now that Key is being further implemented...
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby hgondilon » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:48 pm

The Key system is capable of adding the fare surcharge; however, if a rider has a pass on their Key then they would also need to have money loaded onto the card (In "Travel Wallet", as SEPTA Calls it) to pay for the surcharge. SEPTA Probably decided that having people set up both passes and stored value at the same time was too complicated for the first part of the roll-out, so they simplified the fares.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby MichaelBug » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:41 pm

Part of the issue for the 124 & 125 (at least) would be the fact that the Key system cannot distinguish between a rider traveling only in one of the two local zones (one between KoP/Chesterbrook/Valley Forge to Gulph Mills, the other between Center City & Wissahickon TC) from a rider traveling all the way down the expressway.

(I recall that back in the early 1990's those two lines charged a city fare between Center City & Wissahickon, a city fare + 3 suburban fare zones between those two points & anywhere between Gulph Mills & King of Prussia Mall, & a city fare + 4 suburban fare zones to either Valley Forge or Chesterbrook.)
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby JeffK » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:31 pm

MichaelBug wrote:Part of the issue for the 124 & 125 (at least) would be the fact that the Key system cannot distinguish between a rider traveling only in one of the two local zones (one between KoP/Chesterbrook/Valley Forge to Gulph Mills, the other between Center City & Wissahickon TC) from a rider traveling all the way down the expressway.

That limitation/oversight will be a problem on any zoned route unless SEPTA somehow imposes the cumbersome "tap on, tap off" (The Tapper?!) scheme they've planned for RRD riders. Seemingly it may spell the end of zone charges.

While a zoneless system would definitely be simpler, it also runs counter to the idea that fares should in some way be linked to the distance travelled. I'm concerned that given SEPTA's fixation with "the last dime, every time" they'll make up the shortfall via something counterproductive like a much higher base fare and/or transfer charge.

I recall that back in the early 1990's those two lines charged a city fare between Center City & Wissahickon, a city fare + 3 suburban fare zones between those two points & anywhere between Gulph Mills & King of Prussia Mall, & a city fare + 4 suburban fare zones to either Valley Forge or Chesterbrook.)

That's what I remember too. It seems that SEPTA's fiddled with the 124/5 fares multiple times. I also remember a rather strange "A" and "B" zone structure that was in effect for a few years.

At one point - 2013, I think - they came up with the cockeyed idea of charging a flat $3.75, i.e. the maximum zone fare, on all four routes regardless of the distance travelled. They backed down at least for the 124 & 125 after I brought the plan to the attention of a pro-transit UM supervisor. He went to bat because those two routes also provide local service for which there's no alternative. The 150 and 123 are essentially express-only so they weren't a battle that could be fought, and as we know SEPTA went into bunker mode on the NHSL gouge.
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby Suburban Station » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:53 am

if it was premium service the premium fare might have made sense
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:52 am

Suburban Station wrote:if it was premium service the premium fare might have made sense


That's the thing. This never presented itself as a true premium service in the strictest sense. The only premium part of it was that a good portion of the routing utilized an area "expressway". If this was the case, why didn't service for the 9, 27, 44, and others get bumped up to premium fares? (The 78 is still a special case, I presume.)

And with the latest NHSL schedule, they've severely cut back on the so-called "Limited" run service to just 7 total over the course of weekday peak times. Six runs in morning peak rush from 69th to Norristown and just one in the reverse direction during the afternoon rush. Most of the rest during peak hour are "Express" which doesn't really count as they only skip five stops in the area between 69th and Ardmore. I guess the closest analogue for the possibility of bumping to premium service was maybe the 101 and 102 trolleys. Yeah, we know what happened there...
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Re: Fare simplification for Routes 123, 124, 125, 150, and N

Postby R3 Passenger » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:47 am

JeffersonLeeEng wrote: (The 78 is still a special case, I presume.)

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